[tdinut]

I know this can be dangerous, but I'd love some real world recommendations for speakers that mate well with Roger's RM-10 MK II 25 watt amp.


I know that one usually picks speakers first and then a matching amp but I just had to have this amp.


Thanks!

[Clio09]

Obviously your budget or listening tastes are going to play into this but I use the Audiokinesis Jazz Modules (original with TAD drivers). Furthermore, even though the speakers have a minimum 8 ohm load and pretty much operate in the near 10 ohm range I use the 4 ohm tap on the RM-10. Roger refers to this as light loading and it is certainly beneficial in my experience. I am also looking for a nice set of Quad ESL-57s for this amp. IIRC Roger built the RM-10 for use with his own ESL-57s.

[pehare]

For several years now I've used & am quite happy w/Coincident Partial Eclipse II's (92dB, 7.9-10 ohm, 3 ways) w/my RM10 MKII (35 watt version) light loaded on the 4 ohm taps (which is probably close to the output on your new amp's 8 ohm taps).   Enjoy!

[nnck]

Hi again Joe.
So as you know, the amp I am using is a Music Reference RM-200II. I have it paired with Daedalus DA 1.1 speakers that are 97db efficiency and it's working quite well, as you would expect. Obviously, the RM-200II is a different amp than you are asking about, but with the high efficiency of Daedalus speakers it is reasonable to think that the RM-10 would work as well. In fact, when I first contacted Music Reference and went over the specs of my system, Ben (who works with Roger) first suggested I try the exact amp you are getting now. In the end to me, it amounted to a bit of a toss-up as I figured either amp should work well with my speakers. One deciding factor for me (although perhaps not an extremely important one) was that the RM200II could use a wider range of output tubes including 6550, KT88, KT120, EL34. Since this was my first ever tube amp, I thought the flexibility in output tubes might be a fun option to keep open. FWIW, I am also experimenting with light-loading on this amp, currently using the 2-ohm taps.

Anyway, the point of my post is mention Daedalus speakers as a possibility that might work well. There is quite a bit of info about Daedalus on the AC forums.

[jtwrace]

Ben (who works with Roger)

He seems like a nice guy.  What's his position at MR?

[mick wolfe]

Having owned RM10's way back when, I would look at something that's seriously efficient. Within a reasonable budget, the Tekton Lore series deserve a look. Any of the three would be excellent starting with the M-Lore at around $700. Beyond that, perhaps the Audio Notes or even the Cornscala for even more headroom. Lots of good choices, but I would look most seriously at speakers with benign impedance curves and an honest 92db and above in efficiency...... if you want to listen to a wide variety of music.  As always YMMV, but this was my experience with the older versions of the RM 10. 

[mick wolfe]

If your budget is on the higher side,  Daedalus (which have been mentioned already)  and dc 10 should be on your radar.

[opnly bafld]

He seems like a nice guy.  What's his position at MR?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=120165.0



When I had a RM10 many speakers paired well (even the 85 dB SP-BS22-LR), so I would say anything around 87dB and up.

I have bought an amp first and then searched for speakers several times, a lot of fun me thinks. 

Lin

[bdp24]

There are a nice used pair of GR Research Super-V on their AudioCircle section. Great speaker---Efficient Co-Ax (97dB sensitivity) from 280Hz (I think) up, powered OB Servo Subs below.

[OzarkTom]

If your budget can reach this, get the Vaughn Triodes with the plasma tweeters. All of the reviewers at RMAF last year raved about these speakers, and this amp will work very nice. Ask Roger about these speakers, he has heard them.

http://www.vaughnloudspeakers.com/Speakers.php

[sunnydaze]

If your budget can reach this, get the Vaughn Triodes with the plasma tweeters. All of the reviewers at RMAF last year raved about these speakers, and this amp will work very nice. Ask Roger about these speakers, he has heard them.

http://www.vaughnloudspeakers.com/Speakers.php

I'm sure it's very nice, but the Triode gets real pricey with that plasma tweeter.

Alternatively, get the older version Triode with ribbon tweeter.  I have a pair and they are superb with every amp I throw at them, including low power SET.

Call Jim, he is running specials on some Zinfandel models --  basically a small Triode --  and a smaller Triode prototype.

See info here:

http://vaughnloudspeakers.com/Specials.php

[OzarkTom]

I'm sure it's very nice, but the Triode gets real pricey with that plasma tweeter.

Alternatively, get the older version Triode with ribbon tweeter.  I have a pair and they are superb with every amp I throw at them, including low power SET.

Call Jim, he is running specials on some Zinfandel models --  basically a small Triode --  and a smaller Triode prototype.

See info here:

http://vaughnloudspeakers.com/Specials.php

$5K for Triode Jrs. plus plasma tweeters, that is a steal. Nothing beats plasma tweeters.

[tdinut]

Those plasma tweeters look great!

$5K for Triode Jrs. plus plasma tweeters, that is a steal. Nothing beats plasma tweeters.

[tdinut]

Thanks Lin,


Sometimes a piece of gear gets into you and you have to jump.


I'm excited.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=120165.0



When I had a RM10 many speakers paired well (even the 85 dB SP-BS22-LR), so I would say anything around 87dB and up.

I have bought an amp first and then searched for speakers several times, a lot of fun me thinks. 

Lin

[tdinut]

I've been looking at Quads but don't know enough about them not having experienced them. I have a few others in mind and will ask for opinions as the time gets closer.

Obviously your budget or listening tastes are going to play into this but I use the Audiokinesis Jazz Modules (original with TAD drivers). Furthermore, even though the speakers have a minimum 8 ohm load and pretty much operate in the near 10 ohm range I use the 4 ohm tap on the RM-10. Roger referees to this as light loading and it certainly beneficial in my experience. I am also looking for a nice set of Quad ESL-57s for this amp. IIRC Roger built the RM-10 for use with his own ESL-57s.

[James Romeyn]

This is a shameless plug, but it's also a direct reply to Q posted in the OP.  Mod please delete as desired.

Since discovering the joys of speakers with sensitivity in the low-mid 90 dB range, it's my distinct opinion that systems with the highest value require no more than about 20-30 tube watts to play live music levels with uncompressed peaks.  This being the case, there's absolutely nothing wrong with starting out with the amp and then considering speakers later. 

I know AudioKinesis Zephrin 46 plays live SPL with as little as 10-12 tube watts, because we displayed it with such amp a few weeks ago at Newport THE Show.  Each channel/each enclosure of Zephrin 46 comprises two discreet speaker systems, each flat 16 Ohm above the bass range/12 Ohm minimum, with easy phase angles.  The two 16 Ohm sections wire either parallel for 8 Ohm or series for 32 Ohm (think OTL amps, whose power increases with rising impedance). 

As a matter of fact, in shopping for a tube amp for use in my studio to power Zephrin 46 and Dream Maker LCS, the lovely RM-10 Mk II nears the top of my short list.

$4900/pr including shipping MSRP Zephrin 46 falls one-half to one step behind the world's best electrostatic panels in pure detail and transparency.  It's also behind it's bigger twice as costly Dream Maker LCS brother in this respect.  In every other parameter it excels, especially neutrality and spatial effects.  One of it's most attractive features is wide array of user tuning features for spectral balance, room acoustics, and partnering components.  The cherry on top is a unique, proprietary, electro-mechanical bass mode damping feature that functions in 3-dimensional space as opposed to line level EQ that worsens performance outside microphone test locations.

Zephrin 46 made TAS/Dr. Robert E. Greene's list of Top Five Speakers <$15k/pr at Newport THE Show.  I have special pricing on both models for show demos in walnut.  It may seem strange, but I think it's a reasonable proposition to ship one speaker, audition it in mono, and if it meets performance expectations, ship the other speaker.  If not, return in like condition and buyer looses only return shipping.  I wish I could remember the names, but over the years I've heard that some designers fine tune one speaker by itself before final tests in stereo.         

[Roger A. Modjeski]

I recommend QUAD 57s with my subwoofer system. Thats what I listen to when I am not listening to my ESLs. I have had 2 sets in here recently to fix up for customers. FYI I do QUAD repairs and exotic amps. Just had a  rare Dynavector DV 8250 and DV 3000 Gold preamp through here.

[tdinut]

Thank you Roger!

I recommend QUAD 57s with my subwoofer system. Thats what I listen to when I am not listening to my ESLs. I have had 2 sets in here recently to fix up for customers. FYI I do QUAD repairs and exotic amps. Just had a  rare Dynavector DV 8250 and DV 3000 Gold preamp through here.

[tdinut]

James,


Thank you for opening my eyes AND ears to these. I will seriously check them out.

This is a shameless plug, but it's also a direct reply to Q posted in the OP.  Mod please delete as desired.

Since discovering the joys of speakers with sensitivity in the low-mid 90 dB range, it's my distinct opinion that systems with the highest value require no more than about 20-30 tube watts to play live music levels with uncompressed peaks.  This being the case, there's absolutely nothing wrong with starting out with the amp and then considering speakers later. 

I know AudioKinesis Zephrin 46 plays live SPL with as little as 10-12 tube watts, because we displayed it with such amp a few weeks ago at Newport THE Show.  Each channel/each enclosure of Zephrin 46 comprises two discreet speaker systems, each flat 16 Ohm above the bass range/12 Ohm minimum, with easy phase angles.  The two 16 Ohm sections wire either parallel for 8 Ohm or series for 32 Ohm (think OTL amps, whose power increases with rising impedance). 

As a matter of fact, in shopping for a tube amp for use in my studio to power Zephrin 46 and Dream Maker LCS, the lovely RM-10 Mk II nears the top of my short list.

$4900/pr including shipping MSRP Zephrin 46 falls one-half to one step behind the world's best electrostatic panels in pure detail and transparency.  It's also behind it's bigger twice as costly Dream Maker LCS brother in this respect.  In every other parameter it excels, especially neutrality and spatial effects.  One of it's most attractive features is wide array of user tuning features for spectral balance, room acoustics, and partnering components.  The cherry on top is a unique, proprietary, electro-mechanical bass mode damping feature that functions in 3-dimensional space as opposed to line level EQ that worsens performance outside microphone test locations.

Zephrin 46 made TAS/Dr. Robert E. Greene's list of Top Five Speakers <$15k/pr at Newport THE Show.  I have special pricing on both models for show demos in walnut.  It may seem strange, but I think it's a reasonable proposition to ship one speaker, audition it in mono, and if it meets performance expectations, ship the other speaker.  If not, return in like condition and buyer looses only return shipping.  I wish I could remember the names, but over the years I've heard that some designers fine tune one speaker by itself before final tests in stereo.       

[Roger A. Modjeski]

This is a shameless plug, but it's also a direct reply to Q posted in the OP.  Mod please delete as desired.

Since discovering the joys of speakers with sensitivity in the low-mid 90 dB range, it's my distinct opinion that systems with the highest value require no more than about 20-30 tube watts to play live music levels with uncompressed peaks.  This being the case, there's absolutely nothing wrong with starting out with the amp and then considering speakers later. 

I know AudioKinesis Zephrin 46 plays live SPL with as little as 10-12 tube watts, because we displayed it with such amp a few weeks ago at Newport THE Show.  Each channel/each enclosure of Zephrin 46 comprises two discreet speaker systems, each flat 16 Ohm above the bass range/12 Ohm minimum, with easy phase angles.  The two 16 Ohm sections wire either parallel for 8 Ohm or series for 32 Ohm (think OTL amps, whose power increases with rising impedance). 

As a matter of fact, in shopping for a tube amp for use in my studio to power Zephrin 46 and Dream Maker LCS, the lovely RM-10 Mk II nears the top of my short list.

$4900/pr including shipping MSRP Zephrin 46 falls one-half to one step behind the world's best electrostatic panels in pure detail and transparency.  It's also behind it's bigger twice as costly Dream Maker LCS brother in this respect.  In every other parameter it excels, especially neutrality and spatial effects.  One of it's most attractive features is wide array of user tuning features for spectral balance, room acoustics, and partnering components.  The cherry on top is a unique, proprietary, electro-mechanical bass mode damping feature that functions in 3-dimensional space as opposed to line level EQ that worsens performance outside microphone test locations.

Zephrin 46 made TAS/Dr. Robert E. Greene's list of Top Five Speakers <$15k/pr at Newport THE Show.  I have special pricing on both models for show demos in walnut.  It may seem strange, but I think it's a reasonable proposition to ship one speaker, audition it in mono, and if it meets performance expectations, ship the other speaker.  If not, return in like condition and buyer looses only return shipping.  I wish I could remember the names, but over the years I've heard that some designers fine tune one speaker by itself before final tests in stereo.       

I did look at the speaker. Its nice that it is available in 32 ohms, so thanks for that. Personally, I'm not inclined to compare cones to ESLs.

I have heard some speakers that rival ESLs in midrange clarity (the inexpensive Pioneer SP-bs22 is excellent at $130 a pair). It was a bit of an inspiration for the OTL-1. In visiting a friend who had stacked them 4 high I got to thinking, here is a 32 ohm load if connected in series. One pair is fine for nearfield use, but a stack of 4 made a nice linesource, more bass, though I think a sub is still warranted. A line source is my preferred type of speaker as solves many acoustic problems like floor bounce, vertical directionality and I think makes the most sensible choice in how to, as Beveridge said, "illuminate a room". Overall this attractive stack was the best $500 speaker I have ever heard.  There are several reviews of this speaker, Stereophile being one of them. http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker

The OTL-1 would be very happy driving this load to very high levels. Stacking them higher is fine too. At 86 dB sensitivity they are a bit low but a stack of 4 will raise the efficiency 6 dB to 92 and there will be far less drop-off with distance. We know a line source drops off more gradually than a point source. I believe the numbers are 6 dB vs 3 dB when you double the distance. So if you listen several meters from your speaker that will be an important factor in choosing the line source.

As the speaker impedance is increased we get more amplifier power also. In total the system power will rise 6 dB every time we double the number of speakers. That 3 dB from the speaker and 3 dB from the amplifier for each doubling.