[asliarun]

Hi All,

I could really use your advice and help.

I am looking for a compact solid state  preamp with tone controls.
Does such a thing exist? A a reasonable price?

I have currently hooked up my TV to my parasound 2125 power amp via rca but I think I can get better audio quality with a preamp controlling the volume. Unfortunately, my TV does not do digital out or i could have used my audio gd dac for volume control. But that is a different matter. For now, I can live with my TV acting as a DAC. And I get the convenience of using Roku as a media player (it has almost the same capabilities as an expensive streaming audio player and my squeezebox classic and is so much easier to operate!).

If nothing like this exists, my only other option would be to replace my power amp with an integrated with hopefully tone controls. Again recommendations would be highly welcome! I would then be looking for at least 60-80 watts of clean power. My parasound does 120 on 8ohms and 200 on 4 ohms. My speakers are Carnegie acoustics cst1 floorstanders.

I really want tone controls as a simple room correction tool.

I want it to be compact because of lack of space.

Thanks in advance!
Arun

[srb]

You may want something a little more cheap and cheerful that this, but a good quality unit that will mate well with your 2125 would be the Parasound Zpre2, available as a factory refreshed unit from Audio Advisor for $300 shipped.

Steve

[asliarun]

Thanks, srb. That is actually a very good option, and ticks all the boxes.
Thanks once again!

[srb]

It's a little strange that the black model is a 9.5"W half-rack mount version but the silver model is without rack ears.  If you don't have a color preference or silver actually is your preference, that one would be a bit more compact at ~ 8"W without the rack ears.

Steve

[jarcher]

Alternatively you could use an HDMI switcher like monoprice model 5557 that has toslink & coaxial digital outputs (and even stereo outputs) to run to your DAC. It costs $44. Of course this would only work with HDMI sources. But it is compact and cheap.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?seq=1&format=2&p_id=5557&CAWELAID=1329451830&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=320013720000010715&cadevice=t&gclid=CJqoyJ6__b4CFQGPOgodoXsAvw

Marantz also have slimline receivers that are quite compact - and allow you to have a one box solution for multichannel sound down the road if you want it. These go for as little as $250 refurbed at accessories for less. It's bigger than the zpre, but still only about 4 inches high.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marnr1403/marantz-nr1403-slimline-5.1-av-receiver/1.html

If all you really want is a compact analog 2 channel preamp (no remote), the zpre is hard to beat : it pulls above its size and weight. Me : I'd go for the marantz for the remote and future  multichannel. It even has front left / right preamp outs for your parasound (and a sub out as well).

[srb]

The main requirement for recommendation is tone controls.

If all you really want is a compact analog 2 channel preamp (no remote), the zpre is hard to beat : it pulls above its size and weight.

The Zpre2 (and previous model Zpre) are remote controlled.

Steve

[jarcher]

The marantz has tone controls, just not physical external ones (you can access through the remote going to the tone control menu though).....and the marantz does a lot more than the parasound. I was wrong about the zpre2 not having remote control.

Jon

[srb]

The marantz has tone controls, just not physical external ones

Sorry my post wasn't clear, I should have preceeded my comment about tone controls with a quote containing the recommendation of an HDMI switcher, which is what I was referring to.  I then went on to comment about the remote-controlled Zpre.

Steve

[asliarun]

Thanks for the HDMI switch solution, Jon. That is actually quite interesting - I hadn't thought of tapping digital audio out before the HDMI signal hits the TV. But I think for now, I will just simplify my setup and go with an analog stereo preamp. Sounds like zpre2 it is. I'll also get back some money (hopefully) selling off the Audio GD DAC. Plus, my speakers are not optimally placed since I live in a small apartment and have a 2 year old boy who loves going behind the media cabinet (so my speakers are shoved against the wall literally to act as barriers!). So I thought tone controls would help me control the bass.

Steve, now I am in bit of a fix. My power amp is black, and the rack ears are causing a bit of a dilemma  I could probably live with the extra 1.5" width but it is so unnecessary! Such a strange design choice by Parasound.

[jarcher]

No to harp on the Marantz too much, but the Audysessy automated room correction software is designed to deal with sub optimal rooms and speaker placement as you've discussed.  In a perfect or near perfect room the results are not as noticeable, but I set up one of these Marantz slim line receivers at a friends house that had all in-ceiling speakers and was surprised how noticeable was the improvement in sound vs having it off. I.e. really centering the sound on the listening position and smoothing out the frequency response and even improving the soundstage. You do have to spend up to 30 minutes moving the microphone around your seating position (up to 8 measurements, but you can do less). 

As for Parasound going for the wings w/ the black z series : I think they feel that these would be bought by a pro or installer customer who wants to rack mount them & have them be more invisible, whereas the silver would be for home / cabinet use where cosmetics are more important.  Somehow I doubt many buy the black to rack mount, but perhaps some like the "pro look".

Either the Parasound or Marantz would be a good choice.  I think all the extra bells and whistles of the Marantz are really useful for home theater, and there is potential there for adding extra channels (center channel and more), but can appreciate the relative simplicity and compactness of the ZPre. 

[asliarun]

Hi Jon,

Actually, thanks for posting about the Marantz. I especially like the Audyssey feature - which is a lot more refined than what I can get from a stereo preamp - and the price is quite good too.

I also noticed that the power amp section of the Marantz is rated at 50W. Of course, wattage is only one thing. However, do you think the Marantz would do decently for stereo and music? I was using the Parasound because my earlier set of speakers were quite power hungy but the current ones are rated at 8ohms and although I don't have the impedance curve for Carnegic Acoustics CST1, I think it should be an easy-ish load.

Of course, I will also do an A/B test, but I will have to first buy the Marantz for that, so wanted some inputs before-hand if possible.

Using the Marantz purely as a preamp might be a tight squeeze, but I will have to measure carefully and move things around.

Thanks once again,
Arun

[srb]

Enjoy The Music lists the specs of the CST-1 at nominal 8 ohms with a minimum of 5 ohms and published this impedance graph

 

Sensitivity is listed at 91dB, so it's possible the 50W Marantz could serve you depending on your listening volume and room size.

Along the lines of Cheap and Cheerful, if you went with a refurbished unit, you could pick up a Marantz NR1403 Factory Refurbished unit with 1 year warranty for $250 plus shipping from Accessories4Less.

Steve

[asliarun]

Thanks once again, Steve!

Now I am in yet another dilemma. On one hand, there's the time tested advice that a well built stereo amp with decent specs will sound much better than an AVR. (I've also never owned an AVR). But there's also the "horses for courses" argument and I am not sure if AVRs will perform decently well when run in stereo mode and when the speaker doesn't make too many demands from it.

I'm basically looking for a setup that will sound decent for music, and considering my real world constraints, and the fact that I listen to music in my living room (which is about 10x20 - and opens up to an open kitchen and dining space). Given a very small tradeoff in audio quality, I will prefer a simpler setup (not necessarily bargain basement cheap, but simple to operate). I've seen myself switching on 3-4 different components, getting them warmed up, worrying about overheating etc. - and worst of all, my wife, who listens to music all day, ends up listening to music on her iPad because she cannot operate the audio system.

Any thoughts or advice?

[srb]

I have no doubt that the Marantz AVR will sound better when using the Parasound power amp versus its own internal amplifier.

It's possible that the Parasound preamp may sound a bit better than the preamp in the Marantz, but I doubt the difference would be as great as the difference between power amps.  The Parasound Zpre is not a world class preamp, and although it's certainly quite decent, the recommendation was made more for its compact size, bass and treble controls and remote trigger than anything else.

However, the WAF factor makes me a bit disappointed that the Marantz does not have a 12V trigger output to turn on an external power amp.  I know space is a consideration, but often the power amp can be fitted out of the way with a bit longer pair of RCA cables because it wouldn't need to be accessed if it could be powered on with a trigger.

If room could be made for both an AVR and the power amp, I would probably seek out another manufacturer's slim AVR model that did have a 12V trigger output, just to satisfy the wife and create harmony.

Steve

[jarcher]

I concur with all Steve has said, though how important the 12V DC trigger, only you can decide. I agree w/ Steve it's annoying, particularly as they do include the marantz remote connector in back (to remote control other Marantz products, including amps). 

To get the 12V DV trigger in a Marantz Slim Line receiver you'd have to go to the NR1604, which goes for $400 on accessories4less ($150 more vs the NR1403).  It does offer additional features beyond the 12V trigger (mainly 2 more channels of amplification + network & airplay functionality). You'd have to decide if that merits an extra $150.

I had also assumed you would use the Marantz with your Parasound (my suggestion).  A friend of mine uses his similarly rated slim line to power 5 in-ceiling speakers to more than sufficient volume in a medium sized living room.  But he's not looking to reproduce cinema level volumes.  To me it's always better to have the extra headroom for your main 2 channels such as you have, and keeping the Parasound would be ideal.

[Doublej]

I don't know if the Emotiva UMC-200 Preamp/Processor is going to be too large for you.

But it does have an 11 band parametric equalizer and trigger outputs.

[kc8apf]

If you only need a preamp, the Outlaw 975 is $550.  It's only 3" tall as well.  I've never used the tone controls but they do exist in a menu.

[asliarun]

Thanks, doublej and kc8apf. I did look at these models, but they are more than what I want to pay (for now).
I have to say I have been a fan of Outlaw audio - and what they offer for the money.

Jon and Steve - thanks. As of now, it looks like a toss-up between Marantz 1604 ($400) and Parasound zpre2 ($300).
- The Marantz 1604 will offer Audussey dynamic eq (along with manual eq if I so need), HDMI inputs and switching, an inbuilt DAC, and 12V trigger that will control my power amp. Of course, it is also priced the highest at $400
- The The Parasound zpre2 will offer basic tone controls, marginal improvement in sound quality, and a 12V trigger (but no DAC)
- The Marantz 1403 offers everything that the 1604 will offer, but at a significantly lower price ($250) - but no 12V trigger, and thus means poorer ease of use (should we call it WUF or Wife Usability Factor instead of WAF?)

Need to mull this over.

I was still hoping to find a compact AVR preamp but there seems to be no hope (yet). I find it interesting that so few options exist - which is interesting because I would happily pay the same kind of money for an even more compact device that doesn't have a power amp section (and it would be even more higher margin for the manufacturer!). But perhaps most people in this price segment are looking for a one-box solution? Don't know.

[jarcher]

I wouldn't sweat the 12V DC trigger too much.  You could always put the receiver + amp on a power strip and power on / off with that if the idea of operating two power switches is too much.  I'd only get the 1604 if you want the networking (net radio / access computer / network music files) + airplay feature.

The 1403 is only just over 4 inches high, which is pretty darn slim for a full feature AVR.  I can't think of any other full featured multichannel AVR brand that is that slim.  I've seen some multichannel ANALOG preamps that are the same thickness or thinner, but they go for a lot more and don't' have internal DACs, automated room correction and the other bells & whistles.  E.g. the Nuforce MCP-18 which is a svelte 3 inches, but retails for $1K, and the Parasound P7, which is about the same height as the 1403, but retails for over $2K.

At only $250 it's really hard to go wrong w/ the 1403. Even if you hate it, you're down return shipping for a 20lb item and 15% restocking.  So that's likely less than $60. 

Good luck!

[asliarun]

I have made up my mind. Marantz 1403 it is.

I have been trying to simplify my setup from a DAC and squeezebox. I also realized that the tiny little Roku is quite a credible audio player.

It has over 100 audio apps, supports just about every internet radio channel under the sun including Pandora, supports USB input for a pen drive, will play music from the cloud if I choose to upload it there. Heck, it even plays wxrt which is my favorite Chicago radio channel. And the user interface is far superior to anything else i have known. So I don't really think I need the extra features of the 1604 model.

Thanks again for the good advice and for helping me pick the right device. This 1403 model is massive value for money.