[jarcher]

I think the high end fatigue you sometimes experience - I'm going to guess at higher volumes - is related to a lack of refinement of the digital section of the Preamp / DAC, perhaps additionally exasperated by room issues.  In addition, some Class D modules in amps are accused of not having the very best HF reproduction. 

I know in my limited experience with both (Class D & ESS DACS) that I could see where an ESS 9023 Sabre DAC in an integrated Preamp / DAC section combined with older Class D modules could cause fatigue at higher volumes.  The most cost effective option would seem to address the DAC part by having a higher quality standalone DAC where the primary advantages may be more on the analog section and power supply and isolation from perhaps noise generating issues in the preamp vs just a better DAC chip.    Experimenting with different standalone DACs may not only help you deal with the high frequency refinement, but also dial in the sound more to you taste vs accepting the voicing etc chosen by Peachtree with the integrated DAC.  Fortunately there are many excellent DACs out there well within and below the $2000-$2500 budget you suggested.  For example the Benchmark DAC2, Mytek 192, and even the TEAC UD501, all capable of DSD as well.

As for DSD : in my trials it can at best deliver a more "analog" sound - i.e. warmer, possibly more natural, but it obviously can't compensate for a badly recorded or mastered album, of which there are too many out there.  Furthermore there is so little DSD material out there, aside from rips of SACD disks, I wouldn't make DSD playback ability your prime consideration.  Lastly, some argue that if the DAC doesn't do real DSD digital to analog conversion, but instead converts DSD to PCM, then does the D-A, then it's not a "real" DSD dac.  Some would argue that if you are going to do DSD to PCM conversion, you might be better off using player programs on PCs such as JRiver, Puremusic, etc, that can do the conversion with more processing power and resolution vs what would likely appear in a mid priced DAC unit.  I think there's definitely something to be said about that argument. 

Perhaps a lot to take in, but I think the basic message is buy a DAC based on it's regular PCM capabilities and considered it's DSD abilities as secondary / gravy.

[robcentola]

Thanks for that. That's pretty much right on track to what I'm thinking. I couldn't have said it better. At least I know I'm on the right track.

And Mick, I think you're right. The electronics need to catch up to the salks. However, I'm slightly hypnotised byt he thought of a Salk upgrade.

I have a problem, a serious problem

[Vulcan00]

First question I have is what do you want to change & why?
Better resolution...sound stage...dynamics... What do you feel
is lacking?
So, first off your speakers are darned good. However they are
designed to a strict price point...as are all speakers...

First without a question better source equip. will provide better sound. Preamp, DAC, power conditioning all help. My point is once you get to a certain point in electronics you have to send way more to get that last little bit of improvements. Now compare that to speakers,  the ratio of improvement/ $$, will be higher!
So my vote goes for get the best electronics you can, but put your money in the speakers and work toward the upgrades in electronics. St's are great speakers but under certain conditions, room for one, theres a big difference between speakers.


I had rather go for the speakers first and work my way from there

[robcentola]

You guys really are the best. Thanks.

[ricardojoa]

If it were me, i will go with speakers, an additional sub, a good pre that allows you to integrate the sub to your mains properly and accoustics work.

[jarcher]

Way I see it, you've got $1,000 invested in the preamp and another $1,400 for the amp, and $2K on the Salk ST's (all prices new / retail), but essentially less than $400 in the DAC, if we consider the Nova Pre's internal DAC to be broadly similar to the Peachtree Dac IT, which costs $400 retail.  I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same board (same DAC chip for sure).  But not having the external case, power supply, etc, means actually it's less than $400.  And by now it's at least a 2 year old DAC, which may not sound like a lot, but in DAC unit years, it's middle-aged entry level DAC.

Not to suggest that every component in your system should or needs to cost broadly the same amount of money, but I think it's safe to say you're underinvested in the DAC in relationship to your other components.  As for the Auralic Aries, I agree it seems great for functionality and sound quality, and am actually planning to get one.  But inn terms of return on investment in your situation, a beter DAC vs the streamer / transport is going to make the greater difference. The Oppo 103 is more than up to the task of streamer for now.

I agree with what someone previously said about diminishing returns in audio, but at the $2k or so budget you've set yourself, you can definitely move up to a substantially better sounding DAC than you have now, something you can start enjoying now and that may carry you over to a future system.  I wouldn't spend much more than $2k on a DAC though, unless you're deep pocketed, as the technology / improvements is still moving too quickly to safely make much more of an investment.

[PMAT]

I'm going to fly in the face of all this  Ok, at some point you will change the DAC, the Pre, the cables and maybe the wife. I would buy a studly amp to build it all around. I love the Parasound A21 with class A out to ten watts for even-order harmonic bliss, and some serious headroom for those days when you just gotta rock out or listen to classical at concert levels. Parasound doesn't have a circle here so scratch that and substitute a similar amp that is sweet but has balls (turn off crying baby noise).    then add everything but the DAC. By the time you get to the latest DAC it will sound like DSD Vinyl.    Viola.

[ricardojoa]

I'm going to fly in the face of all this  Ok, at some point you will change the DAC, the Pre, the cables and maybe the wife. I would buy a studly amp to build it all around. I love the Parasound A21 with class A out to ten watts for even-order harmonic bliss, and some serious headroom for those days when you just gotta rock out or listen to classical at concert levels. Parasound doesn't have a circle here so scratch that and substitute a similar amp that is sweet but has balls (turn off crying baby noise).    then add everything but the DAC. By the time you get to the latest DAC it will sound like DSD Vinyl.    Viola.

I have the A23 and had compare it to nuforce sta100 and i could not tell the difference, both sounded good except at idle the nuforce is noisy and the fact that i like the features offered on the halo.

[Nick77]

Forget about audio and buy a house! 

[coke]

I'd start with room treatments.  If you have lots of windows; the proper type of curtain might be a solution.

Next I'd look at a DAC & preamp.  Check the AVA used section.  AVA & Salk are known to work well together.   

[robcentola]

Way I see it, you've got $1,000 invested in the preamp and another $1,400 for the amp, and $2K on the Salk ST's (all prices new / retail), but essentially less than $400 in the DAC, if we consider the Nova Pre's internal DAC to be broadly similar to the Peachtree Dac IT, which costs $400 retail.  I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same board (same DAC chip for sure).  But not having the external case, power supply, etc, means actually it's less than $400.  And by now it's at least a 2 year old DAC, which may not sound like a lot, but in DAC unit years, it's middle-aged entry level DAC.

Not to suggest that every component in your system should or needs to cost broadly the same amount of money, but I think it's safe to say you're underinvested in the DAC in relationship to your other components.  As for the Auralic Aries, I agree it seems great for functionality and sound quality, and am actually planning to get one.  But inn terms of return on investment in your situation, a beter DAC vs the streamer / transport is going to make the greater difference. The Oppo 103 is more than up to the task of streamer for now.

I agree with what someone previously said about diminishing returns in audio, but at the $2k or so budget you've set yourself, you can definitely move up to a substantially better sounding DAC than you have now, something you can start enjoying now and that may carry you over to a future system.  I wouldn't spend much more than $2k on a DAC though, unless you're deep pocketed, as the technology / improvements is still moving too quickly to safely make much more of an investment.

Yes, this is my exact reason for considering a DAC upgrade- bulls-eye! I also agree with everything moving so fast and spending more than 2K could put here again within a year, but there are so many choices : Benchmark, W4S, Exasound, maybe a used Lampi4.....I just don't know, but I'm pretty confident there would be a noticeable difference.

Thanks

[robcentola]

I'm going to fly in the face of all this  Ok, at some point you will change the DAC, the Pre, the cables and maybe the wife. I would buy a studly amp to build it all around. I love the Parasound A21 with class A out to ten watts for even-order harmonic bliss, and some serious headroom for those days when you just gotta rock out or listen to classical at concert levels. Parasound doesn't have a circle here so scratch that and substitute a similar amp that is sweet but has balls (turn off crying baby noise).    then add everything but the DAC. By the time you get to the latest DAC it will sound like DSD Vinyl.    Viola.

Keeping the wife!

[robcentola]

Forget about audio and buy a house! 

I would if I were to stay in Boone NC. We're thinking about moving back to Asheville. If that were the case, the upgrades wold wait!

[robcentola]

Decided on the speaker upgrade. After a couple of emails from people who moved from ST's to VST's, it's hard not to do. Who know's what the future (6-12 months) will bring as far as DAC's are concerned, so I think it would be wise to wait just a bit on the electronics and take advantage of  the "introductory offer". Veracity SongTowers here I come!

Already got the wife's approval, so now comes the daunting task of figuring out the veneer and what cost that will brings.

Jim I'll be in touch shortly!

Here we go again!!!!

[glangford]

A wise choice.  The best improvement will always come in speakers.

[robcentola]

The hardest part is picking out a finish. Should I go loud and make a statement, or should I be more subtle and have them blend in?

[ricardojoa]

I really find that with Salk, is really a matter of taste, because either way it is going to be nice. You may want to focus on blending with your decor or furniture. Sometimes a lighter or darker tone then your furnitures can bring out the speaker without that going overbaord on the veneer.

Check out this link, the salk blend in the room so nicely!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=118647.0

[robcentola]

I remember those. Wow.

[glangford]

I really find that with Salk, is really a matter of taste, because either way it is going to be nice. You may want to focus on blending with your decor or furniture. Sometimes a lighter or darker tone then your furnitures can bring out the speaker without that going overbaord on the veneer.

Check out this link, the salk blend in the room so nicely!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=118647.0

I went blended in.  My wife wanted a stereo cabinet/tv stand what was more furniture than typical pieces so I got one from Ethan Allen in Cherry.   Jim's standard curly cherry in a dark finish seems to be a perfect match.   I got the SCST, so I'm sure you'll love the VST.

[Rocket]

Hi,

I know that you have already decided on a speaker upgrade but I though I would share a link for you to a modification to your preamplifier that may in the future help with your system.

http://www.underwoodhifi.com/2012/06/decco2-idecco-and-nova.html#more

Cheers Rod