[Folsom]

You guys are all fools. Come over to the AVS forum where all DAC's and transports sound indistinguishable in hard science of currents and plug switching known as the ABX.

[Freo-1]

You guys are all fools. Come over to the AVS forum where all DAC's and transports sound indistinguishable in hard science of currents and plug switching known as the ABX.

Absolute BS.  If I want mid-fi sound with AVR receivers and mid-fi speakers, then I'll use any old DAC with crappy op-amps.  However, when one uses high end custom DIY tube amps (or Electrocompaniet SS electronics), with studio reference ATC speakers that employ super-linear drivers for high end two channel reproduction, all DAC's do NOT sound the same.

[Canada Rob]

Now this is information I read in a 6moons.com review online, and supposedly the ESS 9018 internal up-sampling capability is not used which one of reasons it performs the way it does. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/auralic5/1.html
To date I have not liked the resulting sound produced when an ESS Sabre DAC is allowed to internally up-sample the data.
Scotty

One of the reasons Resonessence Labs began building complete DACs is because they felt manufacturers using their chip were not implementing them to their full potential.  Mom knows her own baby best.

[Geardaddy]

Here is a paraphrased excerpt from the owner's manual of my NOS DAC. It explains in laymen's terms why the NOS approach is better :

"Regardless of the theoretical advantages of over sampling, noise shaping, re-clocking or jitter reduction, these corrective measures greatly interfere with the critical time domain requirements of the signal.

Music is a time continuum from start to end which when broken is irreparably damaged. No amount of clever manipulation can restore it to its original time / frequency / amplitude duration or relationship, regardless of what the theorists may tell you."

I agree with this philosophy. However, the problem with making it true across the board is one of economy. You can't just take the analog signal directly off of a D/A chip and hand it over to an op amp through a I/V resistor and be ahead of the game. Well I suppose you can, and some manufacturers actually do,,,, but that will probably sound bright, aggressive, and/or fatiguing in the long run. The power supplies, the I/V technique, the analog filtering, and the quality level of all of the supporting parts will make or break the whole thing.

I think if you are not willing to spend too much money on a NOS DAC then you should probably buy a regular "corrective" type of DAC.

That is right on the $.  Time domain is everything.  As I await my uber tubed dac, I have a cheap Valabs NOS dac on loan from a friend and it is musically satisfying.  It costs a little over $200 new on eBay via China....

[jimdgoulding]

Absolute BS.  If I want mid-fi sound with AVR receivers and mid-fi speakers, then I'll use any old DAC with crappy op-amps.  However, when one uses high end custom DIY tube amps (or Electrocompaniet SS electronics), with studio reference ATC speakers that employ super-linear drivers for high end two channel reproduction, all DAC's do NOT sound the same.

Gotta admit I love a man with conviction.  Nice speakers, damn!

[Folsom]

Absolute BS.  If I want mid-fi sound with AVR receivers and mid-fi speakers, then I'll use any old DAC with crappy op-amps.  However, when one uses high end custom DIY tube amps (or Electrocompaniet SS electronics), with studio reference ATC speakers that employ super-linear drivers for high end two channel reproduction, all DAC's do NOT sound the same.

I know, I don't was making a joke. I find that forum to be difficult.

[Freo-1]

I know, I don't was making a joke. I find that forum to be difficult.

Cheers, Mate!  I kinda thought it was tongue in-cheek, but wanted to make sure there was no ambiguity for the general public.   

There are folks out there who really think all amps sound the same.      (and yes, many of them live over on the other forum in question).

[Folsom]

There doesn't seem to be engineers or industry participants there. While an industry participant might be likely to be biased some, the audiophile world is surprisingly clean and open; basically everyone knows who's scamming. I guess it's tough to be on a witch hunt in an industry mostly compromised of people and companies that enjoy the hobby!

For the record a lot of NOS DAC's have a higher distortion from omitting a particular part in-between two chips. The distortion that carries over seems to have a positive effect. Very counterintuitive to the "modern better specs means better sound".... No better sound means better sound; and it doesn't play by your electrical ideologies.