[Audiolad]

yes, 2w is perhaps enough if you have subs and listening mostly at low Levels. but my experience tells me that u need headroom. nothing is more disturbing than when an amp lost it's "breath" and the dynamics flattens out. i for one refuse that the rig dictates what and how i should listening at

[Guy 13]

yes, 2w is perhaps enough if you have subs and listening mostly at low Levels. but my experience tells me that u need headroom. nothing is more disturbing than when an amp lost it's "breath" and the dynamics flattens out. i for one refuse that the rig dictates what and how i should listening at

Hi (Again) Audiolad.
Yes, you are right. 2 wpc is a little on the border line,
especially when I listen to classical music.
Steve Deckert from Decware, told me (Via e-mail, in response to my question)
that you can run two SE84C+ in bridge configuration
and that way it will give you close to 6 wpc,
but at what cost?
895 USD X 2 = Lots of $$$
For the same amount, you can get something better,
I have no suggestions, but it does not mean there's no other choice.
I have a Niteshade Audio NS10 with 10 wpc but SE Pentode - 6L6 it does not sounds as good as the 2 wpc Decware, but has lots of headroom,
I even tried a Sony ss receiver with 30 wpc and a Pioneer ss receiver with 100 wpc the sound is not good, but lots. lots of headroom.

Guy 13

[Audiolad]

wise words, guy.

u got to the core of the problem for most small and relatively unknown companies here. they can make very good products which are attractive at a certain price point. when exceeding that point they'll face stiff competion from the bigger, well known and more famous companies. the customers have to take into account such things as re-sale value.

decware and omega are small companies. ie when comparing the 6 alnico xrs vs the 8 alnico xrs i had no doubt that the latter was the better one. but then at that time you had to consider other great products such as the gallo ref 3.1, the proacs, the harbeths and so on. they all had great and well reputed products in the price bracket of the alnico 8 xrs, even though it was a great product itself. i fully understand why omega pulled them out of production. of course they will never admit it, but the alnico 8 xrs could not be good business and probably tapped the resourses out of a small company like omega. the safer card would be to put the money on the more "common" and well known alnico 6". it seemed more wise to send the alnico 6" to reviewers rather than the alnico 8".

bottom line is decware, rwa and omega are sc niche producers. great products - at any price bracket - if u are willing to give up the re-sale value that is.

[Guy 13]

Hi Audiolad.
A few words before hitting the sack.
For me resale value is almost never important,
because when I buy something,
it's to keep it until, well until I set foot in my coffin.

Guy 13

[Brad]

The Decware Zen series seem to hold their value pretty well.  Not so sure about their higher cost stuff.
And the Omegas I had held their value well.

Agreed about the much higher level of competition once the pricing gets above a certain point.

[HPDJ]

I'd like to give another mention to Red Wine Audio......the owner Vinnie is very easy to communicate with via email/phone and is very patient with any questions you may have and I'm the proud owner of his Signature 16 integrated amp and I just love the little thing. Fully upgradeable, 10 year warrantly, 100% trade in value towards his Sig 57 and Liliana mono blocks should I ever need more power (Starting only from the Sig 16), hybrid design which lets me roll tubes (and only having to worry about ONE tube which I like), remote control, great headphone output and no worries about power cords or conditioners because it's battery powered.

I've had some amps by Decware and they are great just like everyone says....the Sig 16 was just a better fit for me and my system and a more enjoyable product to use. I'm glad I made the investment

Have fun with your search and enjoy the music!

[Audiolad]

hi, hpdj

and that's the beauty of small companies. they tend to have more time for their customers and have usually a closer bond to them - as should every company no matter the size!

guy,

customers like you are bad for the business! joking aside, me i see audio as a hobby. i enjoy music thru many devices like the car audio, the kitchen radio, the headphones and so on. i don't need flea watt tube amps or single driver spkrs to get moved by music, just like i don't need bamboo rods to enjoy fly fishing!

[Nailbunny7]

Hi (Again) Audiolad.
Yes, you are right. 2 wpc is a little on the border line,
especially when I listen to classical music.
Steve Deckert from Decware, told me (Via e-mail, in response to my question)
that you can run two SE84C+ in bridge configuration
and that way it will give you close to 6 wpc,
but at what cost?
895 USD X 2 = Lots of $$$
For the same amount, you can get something better,
I have no suggestions, but it does not mean there's no other choice.
I have a Niteshade Audio NS10 with 10 wpc but SE Pentode - 6L6 it does not sounds as good as the 2 wpc Decware, but has lots of headroom,
I even tried a Sony ss receiver with 30 wpc and a Pioneer ss receiver with 100 wpc the sound is not good, but lots. lots of headroom.

Guy 13

I agree, for about 1500-2000, you can get some seriously better gear for these speakers. I (very briefly, I am a fickle person) owned the decware Torii MK3 and it was great, but expensive. For 1400 (less than buying 2 of that other decware amp), I would recommend buying one of these from Audio Note Kits: http://www.ankaudiokits.com/l1el84.html
And if you don't feel confident swinging an iron, they will build it for you for about 10% of the cost of the unit. I love the sound of EL84 tubes with Omega speakers, so I cannot recommend this enough.

[Canada Rob]

Most of the big name audio companies have planned obsolescence just like the computer and software companies.  When a big name product is discontinued it will often sell for about half price (really what it is worth).  Cottage, or underground audio gear is often hand made, better made, and will fetch a higher dollar on the used market.  What company can offer driver upgrades for a ten year old model?  Omega.  Very rare in this day.  Find a driver upgrade for your B&Ws, good luck!  To my knowledge, the original Decware SE84 is upgradable to current status.  The big names generally don't offer this sort of thing.

Having a manufacturing background, I know that from factory to consumer the cost is multiplied about 4-5 times.  Nowhere near in cottage industry, so the value one is getting for their dollar is far higher in the latter.  Almost every piece of audio gear in my place in from a cottage company, and the performance is better than anything I have owned from the big names.  Many of the big names are driven by the bean counters in the back office whereas many cottage products are designed by someone with a passion for good sound.  Louis is one of the latter, and he does not charge near enough for his products.  Yay for us.

[Guy 13]

Most of the big name audio companies have planned obsolescence just like the computer and software companies.  When a big name product is discontinued it will often sell for about half price (really what it is worth).  Cottage, or underground audio gear is often hand made, better made, and will fetch a higher dollar on the used market.  What company can offer driver upgrades for a ten year old model?  Omega.  Very rare in this day.  Find a driver upgrade for your B&Ws, good luck!  To my knowledge, the original Decware SE84 is upgradable to current status.  The big names generally don't offer this sort of thing.

Having a manufacturing background, I know that from factory to consumer the cost is multiplied about 4-5 times.  Nowhere near in cottage industry, so the value one is getting for their dollar is far higher in the latter.  Almost every piece of audio gear in my place in from a cottage company, and the performance is better than anything I have owned from the big names.  Many of the big names are driven by the bean counters in the back office whereas many cottage products are designed by someone with a passion for good sound.  Louis is one of the latter, and he does not charge near enough for his products.  Yay for us.


Hi Rob.
Dealing with (Very) small companies:
Pro : Most of the time you can talk directly to the owner.
        They are passionate about what they do.
        They are flexible.
         You can get up-grades for a very long time.
Con: Many times, they have limited choice of models.
        If the own kick the bucket, well… You know.
        If the owner is chief, cook and bottle washer, then you know what can happen. Look at Louis, can hardly keep up with the demand for his good products.
A one man show business can be a little risky, but if he’s got a few employees, then they can take over if something happens.         
Just wanted to add my grain of salt.
By the way, may I know the address of your website for your business?

Guy 13
Made in USA and/or sold from USA products that I own:
Bellari, Decware, Bottlehead, GR Research, Signal Cable, Omega, Majik Buss.

[Audiolad]

Canada rob & guy 13,

i agreed, especially guy 13 who managed to see things from both sides   

but m2c

- i don't think most audio companies plan obsolescence. that's my experience as i tend to change gear alot and therefore have had loads of equipment during my 30 years as a audiophile.

- a "one man show" depends on the man's stability. if he gets a good idea he can put them in practice sooner rather than later. he can chop and change things around (too) quickly. this could hurt the consistency and be quite frustrating for the dealers and customers. and new ideas are not by default better ones 

[Guy 13]

Canada rob & guy 13,

i agreed, especially guy 13 who managed to see things from both sides   

but m2c

- i don't think most audio companies plan obsolescence. that's my experience as i tend to change gear alot and therefore have had loads of equipment during my 30 years as a audiophile.

- a "one man show" depends on the man's stability. if he gets a good idea he can put them in practice sooner rather than later. he can chop and change things around (too) quickly. this could hurt the consistency and be quite frustrating for the dealers and customers. and new ideas are not by default better ones 

Hi Audiolad.
In the past for many years, I was a one man show with my business in Canada,
therefore, I should know what I am talking about.
Here on planet Vietnam, I am importer/distributor and retailer for an Italian company by the name of Manfrotto, one of their products we sell the most is camera tripods and a few years back, we use to carry most of the spare parts needed to repair any of their tripods, but a few years ago, they started to change parts and make them, well, more fashionable, better looking, and mainly very different looking, so we cannot afford to keep in stock and keep up with their changes with all the spare parts to repair the new and mostly the old tripod. We can always order repair parts, but customer has to wait a few months, to me unacceptable, because before, we could repair everything within 48 hours with our huge inventory of spare parts.
They keep changing the look of their products pretending they are improved, better, etc... 
The same thing for audio. I would like to see spare parts and up-grade available for 10 to 20 years.
Magnum Dynalab as a program to up-grade anything you buy from them.
To me the advantage of point to point tube audio stuff is that it will be repairable and maybe even up-gradable for the next 20 years or until I kick the bucket. I am now putting together a stereo sound system that should last and be repairable until I die and even I hope to be able to pass it on the my children or who ever is interested in high quality audio stuff.
Buy from who you want and what you want, but I think it would be wise to buy American or Canadian products from smaller companies and there are more than we think, it's just that you have to look harder.
One last think, I choose the el84 tubes, because they are inexpensive, ditto for the el34.

Guy 13
   

[Canada Rob]

Audiolad,

Obsolescence is planned by more companies than not, becau$e that i$ what makes the world of consumerism go around.  The Apple iPhone is a classic example.  There are probably more in the landfill than in people's hands.  Planned obsolescence keeps people coming back for more, and if the company (like Apple) does most things "right" they grow in size, power, and profits.  Most large corporations want to see a certain percentage of growth each year, and most, having little collective conscience, will do whatever they have to, including planned obsolescence.  Planned obsolescence is advertised as "improvements", but if a person stops and thinks, how much can a product improve (especially a subjective one like speakers) over the decades since the 1960's when good audio became mainstream?  A couple of months ago I got to hear some vintage gear from the late 60s and it destroyed much of the "modern" gear I have heard over the last 25 years.  Where have we come?

Don't get me wrong here, some things have truly improved: A well designed tube amp is better today than in the sixties due to advances in materials and parts design making simpler, better sounding circuits available.  Paper and other natural fibre drivers, though looking back to the 1940's benefit from the same advances as the tube amps.  A properly set up computer and modest priced DAC will destroy alot of high end CD players of just a few years ago.  Ironically, most of these real advances take place in cottage industry, or the audio underground.

Guy,

In dealing with Louis for over five years, he has consistantly had approximately the same (3-4 weeks) lead time on his orders, whether drop shipped to my customers or sent directly to me.  He has also done very well in keeping his drivers and plate amps in stock.
True, if something should happen to the one man show, Omega could be gone, but in this world of uncertainties there are a thousand other things that could likely cut us off from our beloved hobby than something happening to Louis, Steve, Syd, Nelson, etc.  Products like Omega have a "cult" following and someone within that cult could take it over.  BTW, Omega is a two man show, Louis still designs and builds, but yours truly handles other areas of his business.  Big boots to fill.  Looking at Louis' business from the inside, I can say even though it is a small cottage company, I see more stability in Omega Speaker Systems than in many companies hundreds of times his size.

My website adress is: audioboutique.ca

[guest61169]

...Worth considering are Dennis Had's Inpire single ended amps. 

Although I don't have Omegas, that's what I would use if I bought a pair.  Here's mine:


 

[Canada Rob]

Love it.  EL84 SET with 274B rectifier and 12AX driver?  What are you using for a pre-amp?  This amp would be a real match for Omegas.

[Audiolad]

canada rob,

i've owned some vintage gear (amps, spkrs, turnables, radios). 20-40 years old and still working fine. and would you believe many of them were made in the far east as well! it may shock you, but they can make quality gear in other parts of the world too. planned obsolescence in audio business? i don't think so!

noway,

dennis had should know whats he's doing. i've never owned a product designed by him before but that will hopefully change soon. unless he plans obsolescence too 

[DaveC113]

I wouldn't mind if someone made my SET obsolete... but in decades of technological advancement it hasn't happened yet! 

Class D amps are getting better all the time but they still have a ways to go imo...

[Canada Rob]

canada rob,

i've owned some vintage gear (amps, spkrs, turnables, radios). 20-40 years old and still working fine. and would you believe many of them were made in the far east as well! it may shock you, but they can make quality gear in other parts of the world too. planned obsolescence in audio business? i don't think so!

noway,

dennis had should know whats he's doing. i've never owned a product designed by him before but that will hopefully change soon. unless he plans obsolescence too 

Nowhere did I say good gear was only made in North America.  I worked in stereo stores in the hayday of the big Japanese manufacturers and they made some extremely good pieces which still sound great by today's standards.
Planned obsolescence has nothing to do with whether a product functions after 40 years.  Planned obsolescence is when your brand new computer, iPhone, iPod is outdated before you buy it, and in five years due to software updates becomes all but useless.  Planned obsolescence is when a particular speaker which has a certain name and model number and five years later has the same name and model number, but bears no resemblance to the original.  Also parts (let alone upgrades) are unavailable for the original.  Case in point: original Ford Mustang and the Mustang II (really a bigger Pinto).  The original Mustang wasn't broke, why fix it?  Harley Davidson is a company that does not and has never built with planned obsolescence in mind.  Sugden Audio is another.  Where is Sansui, Akai, Kenwood, Pioneer?  They are either gone or morphed into mass market also rans who change their products every year to year and a half.....for what?  The sake of change, and not always for the better.

[Canada Rob]

I wouldn't mind if someone made my SET obsolete... but in decades of technological advancement it hasn't happened yet! 

And maybe never will.  To "upgrade" simplicity usually means more complexity, which could be a downgrade IMO.  Decware upgraded their Super Zen Select by adding meters to it making it more complex, not to mention a huge price increase to boot.  I may be one of the very few, if not the only one who has a Super Zen Select with no meters.  It was in the build queue when they came out with the basic Super Zen, but before the metered Select came out, so mine got the Super Zen upgrades sans the meters.  I'm glad of it as I would not want the extra complexity of the meters.

[beowulf]

And not likely to.  To "upgrade" simplicity usually means more complexity, which would be a downgrade IMO.  Decware "upgraded" their Super Zen Select by adding meters to it making it more complex, not to mention a huge price increase to boot.  I may be one of the very few, if not the only one who has a Super Zen Select with no meters.  It was in the build queue when they came out with the basic Super Zen, but before the metered Select came out, so mine got the Super Zen upgrades sans the meters.  I'm glad of it as I would not want the extra complexity of the meters.

There's still the Super Zen at $895 though!