[PMAT]

Which of the Carver Amazings is THE Carver to find? There is a current discussion over at Audio Kinesis that has THE Jim Croft in the discussion. The Carver speaker designs came up and I SO wanted to hijack the thread and talk about the Amazings. Instead, I started this thread. This morning I was in front of my Carver AL III's listening to Dire Straits "Brothers in arms". I am continually blown away at the sweetness of the 48 inch planar. While I don't have the power amp capable of pushing these speakers apparently they can also rock big time. Not a lot of speakers have low level sweetness and great power handling too. It got me thinking about finding the overall best used Carver speaker. So which one is it? And what moderately priced system would you build around it?     

[Jon L]

Personally, I would look for a used pair of Carver Amazing Platinum (whichever version) that ALREADY had the passive crossover bypassed and converted with a good active crossover.  I have heard such configuration a few times, and they are excellent.   However, there are always large hidden costs with the Amazings, e.g. space and amplification requirements 

[PMAT]

Is there a consensus on which active crossover is best suited for these 2 ways? Space considerations are not a problem. Amps are a concern but there are so many high power amps available that there must be a few reasonably priced that would sound nice paired with these.

[rooze]

I'm only aware of one active crossover built for the Carver Amazing, it's the Clearview CXR-1 active crossover which is long out of production and quite rare.

You can go down other paths with active XO's but you'll be taking on the role of speaker designer in doing so. It isn't just a case of selecting a crossover point with the Carvers, there's some trickery in the XO which will require electronic EQ to attempt to replicate.

As far as which speaker to buy - the 60" models are easier to drive than the 'Originals' with their 2x30" ribbons per side. Some folks prefer the original 'honeycomb' woofers over the more modern version. The only speakers to feature the 60" ribbon with the honeycomb bass are the Platinum 'hybrid'. This was an upgrade kit issued for owners of the Original Amazing to replace the 2x30 inch ribbons with the new 60", yet retain the old bass drivers. The kit came with new XO's.
There's a bit more info here on the Carver Amazing, including some pricing ideas - http://newaudiosociety.com/equipment-reviews/speakers/carver-amazing.html
Anyone thinking of buying a set should know what to look for. The main problems are buzzing ribbons and worn woofer surrounds. Getting a buzzing ribbon repaired ain't easy and it ain't cheap.

[Speedskater]

I have one of those rare Clearview CXR-1 active crossover's up in the attic.

[rooze]

PM me if you want to sell it, 

[Scott F.]

Not tying to turn this into a for sale thread but I've got a pair of the 30" ribbons that I had rebuilt by Dave Sauter a number of years ago. I'd happily part with them if someone needed them.

[PMAT]

Thanks for the info. It's kind of a dead end with everything being so old. Too bad as I hear a lot of experienced audio nuts reference them as great speakers. My AL III's are very enjoyable and quite diff from my VMPS, AR and KEF's. They are really addicting and surprising. I still hope a nice pair of Platinums come up locally.

[TNRabbit]

Depends on what you're looking for.  I think the AL-IIIs image better than any of the other Amazing line. Probably due to the narrower "wing" waveguide.  I've heard all versions & personally prefer the AL-IIIs.  Not that the Platinums aren't great; they're just different.

[PMAT]

Thanks Mr. Wabbit. I have decided to keep my AL III and try to find better amplification. I'm thinking Parasound A21 for about $1500 used. Good power and jfet/bipolar, big transformer and plenty of storage. I'll need a sweet preamp with remote and maybe the oppo or salkstream front. If that all sounds good I planto but another pair of AL IIIs as mine are beat up. The wings are pretty damaged. I do woodwork but the wings are a complex shape. I'm not a fan of plain oak either.

[FullRangeMan]

Which of the Carver Amazings is THE Carver to find?

I had the Silver Edition.
The Amazing to own are the black piano Silver or the Platinum Edition IMO.

[satie]

The more recent versions that may not necessarily be a restoration project are all quite similar in sound so if you have one already, you are better off just fitting them with proper amplification or going into active crossovers and biamping. You can find the original crossover specs from the schematics and have Marchand build you an active crossover that mimics their curves and crossover frequencies.

[PMAT]

Wow! I didn't know that Marchand could match an active to a passive like this one, can they really do that? I had heard to stay away from that DIY project because of the complexity of this crossover. Also, does anyone know if the wings can be replicated with CNC? I would love to have wings made from solid hardwood. I could build the woofer box myself. They would look awesome with hardwood wings. 

[satie]

Wow! I didn't know that Marchand could match an active to a passive like this one, can they really do that? I had heard to stay away from that DIY project because of the complexity of this crossover. Also, does anyone know if the wings can be replicated with CNC? I would love to have wings made from solid hardwood. I could build the woofer box myself. They would look awesome with hardwood wings. 

It sounds very good. The thing is to get the schematics, what happens in the passive XO is usually quite easy to duplicate in an active XO like Marchand's. So far as I recall, the Amazing III has two crossover filters, a notch filter for the ribbon resonance peak, and a sort of baffle step compensation that time aligns the center of the ribbon with the woofer, but you need to check out the schematics to make sure and to avoid having to redesign the XO network from scratch, not an easy thing.

[TNRabbit]

It sounds very good. The thing is to get the schematics, what happens in the passive XO is usually quite easy to duplicate in an active XO like Marchand's. So far as I recall, the Amazing III has two crossover filters, a notch filter for the ribbon resonance peak, and a sort of baffle step compensation that time aligns the center of the ribbon with the woofer, but you need to check out the schematics to make sure and to avoid having to redesign the XO network from scratch, not an easy thing.

There are actually TWO ribbon notch filters, one at @ 2600 hz & another at @ 5800 hz.

I have a rather detailed thread called "Going Active" centered on a pair of AL-IIIs:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110164.msg1136355#msg1136355

[rollo]

Thanks Mr. Wabbit. I have decided to keep my AL III and try to find better amplification. I'm thinking Parasound A21 for about $1500 used. Good power and jfet/bipolar, big transformer and plenty of storage. I'll need a sweet preamp with remote and maybe the oppo or salkstream front. If that all sounds good I planto but another pair of AL IIIs as mine are beat up. The wings are pretty damaged. I do woodwork but the wings are a complex shape. I'm not a fan of plain oak either.

   Excellent decision. The Parasound will mate well. The Carvers need current. The more power the better.  Or a Bryston 4bSST2 with a tubed preamp.

charles

[PMAT]

I think the Parasound will be the best match for me. I can get an almost new one for the $1500 price point. I still need to figure out the preamp(suggestions?). I was going to go the DIY route for speakers a while back. I now want to mod the Carvers to be custom units. The Carver repair center does revamps of the crossover with better parts for 450 a set. The ribbons need no mod. The bass drivers can be rebuilt and they seem quite good. The infinity and JL upgrade bass drivers are no longer sold but perhaps someone knows of a better driver available now that will match. The port can be replaced with a nice flared one. With custom hardwood wings and the above mods I would have a killer speaker for a low investment.
Any ideas how to make the wings without a CNC router?

[TNRabbit]

the wings are already hard wood. You can just refinished them.

[PMAT]

I've been reading up on the Parasound amps. With the A51 at 250 wpc and 5 channels available, can you just remover the jumpers on the AL III's and run 2 channels into each speaker with no mods? Would that be better than the A21 (250 wpc) 2 channel amp using the jumpers?

[satie]

I've been reading up on the Parasound amps. With the A51 at 250 wpc and 5 channels available, can you just remover the jumpers on the AL III's and run 2 channels into each speaker with no mods? Would that be better than the A21 (250 wpc) 2 channel amp using the jumpers?

Probably would be better since the bass demands are typically way higher than mid/treble so you get IMD from the bass into the mids via the output devices and the power supply, by using a multichannel amp you take the output devices out of the intermodulation problem leaving only the power supply. Besides which the output devices driving the top of the speaker would be far less likely to operate outside their optimal range when they don't have to swing large currents for bass yet retain the ability to faithfully output small signal differentials riding on top of the big bass signal.