Idea for a Herbie's "kit" - for Soundocity Outriggers

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 4411 times.

mfsoa

Hi Steve.

I had an idea - don't know if it'll be effective but what the heck why not-

I am about to start using Soundocity outriggers on my new Revel F206s and I thought that I would try to decouple them from my speaker. So I picked up some Grungebuster dots of what I figured would be the appropriate size and came up with this set-up (excuse the cell-phone camera):



I can't say that I definitely hear an improvement but the dots do reduce the vibration of the bottom of the speaker, and they must be reducing energy transfer to the floor so it's all good.

I wanted to share as I think if you made kits specifically sized for the outriggers it would work even better than what I have cobbled together.

When this idea sets the audio world on fire and you are able to retire early you can thank me  :thumb:

-Mike

Delacroix

Re: Idea for a Herbie's "kit" - for Soundocity Outriggers
« Reply #1 on: 29 Mar 2014, 02:41 am »
Interesting -- I use the Outriggers and never thought of decoupling them from the speaker. Curiously, I use Herbie's decoupling footers under the Outrigger spikes to protect my wooden floors, and found them to offer some improvement (see review in Affordable Audio). I think your idea of using Grungebusters is worth a try, though I would dread having to fit them to my super-heavy speakers now.Of course, curious minds want to know...

Herbie

Re: Idea for a Herbie's "kit" - for Soundocity Outriggers
« Reply #2 on: 29 Mar 2014, 02:53 am »
Sure, I can make a Soundocity Outrigger "kit." Grungebuster Dots are not the most appropriate material, however. You would want to use "Thin" Fat Dots instead, made of Herbie's dBNeutralizer material. If you let me know the size "diameter" of the Dots you used, I can duplicate them with "Thin" Fat Dots and set a special price for the kit.

(Most essentially, decoupling/isolating with Herbie's Cone/Spike Decoupling Gliders under each of the Outrigger spikes is really beneficial sonically, plus accommodates easier movement of the speakers when needed.)

Steve Herbelin
Herbie's Audio Lab

deauguie

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 43
Re: Idea for a Herbie's "kit" - for Soundocity Outriggers
« Reply #3 on: 5 Jul 2014, 04:20 am »
Hi Steve,

I was wondering if there has been any further interest in this application.  I too am using these outriggers, and this idea is intreguing to me as well.

Dan

Photon46

Re: Idea for a Herbie's "kit" - for Soundocity Outriggers
« Reply #4 on: 5 Jul 2014, 01:14 pm »
Not trying to rain on anyone's parade or discourage experimentation, but it does seem that decoupling the outriggers from the speaker bases is completely defeating the point of spiked outriggers. The reason you spike your speakers is to focus speaker cabinet vibrations into a small spot that can be dealt with through dissipation into flooring or some sort of vibration absorbing material. If you decouple the cabinet from the outriggers and spikes, you're defeating the purpose of the spikes and the cabinet vibrations are trapped with no where to go. Or so it seems to me?

Herbie

Re: Idea for a Herbie's "kit" - for Soundocity Outriggers
« Reply #5 on: 5 Jul 2014, 11:29 pm »
Hi, Photon46. Don't worry; you're not raining on anyone's parade, but you've sort of missed the boat.

Effective decoupling/isolation of speaker cabinet from stand or platform is virtually always beneficial. If the speaker is rigidly coupled and spiked to the floor, you have inefficient absorption of driver-generated cabinet vibration. Also, many of these vibrations are transferred to the floor where they will resonate and reverberate right back up the spikes the way they came, bringing distortion and coloration (regardless of whether the floor is hardwood or concrete). Much of this vibration is higher-frequency, acute micro-vibrations that cause glare, harshness, dis-linearity and tonal variation in the music. (Speaker-generated floorborne vibrations can also penetrate the audio rack and introduce distortion in sensitive rack components).

With loudspeaker isolation, including an isolation/decoupling interface between spikes and floor, you'll usually get a truer sonic linearity, especially in the deep bass, along with subtle, general improvements throughout the audio spectrum. This renders the music more faithful to the originally recorded event and reveals more of the inherent potential of the speakers.

This is not just speculation. Loudspeaker isolation/decoupling has proven superior to spiking alone thousands of times over the years with people using Herbie's Audio Lab's loudspeaker isolation products. Scarcely ever the other way around.

Steve Herbelin
Herbie's Audio Lab

Photon46

Re: Idea for a Herbie's "kit" - for Soundocity Outriggers
« Reply #6 on: 6 Jul 2014, 11:48 am »
Thanks for your input Steve. I get what you're explaining but I still wonder if decoupling floor standing speakers from their outriggers is the most efficient way to dissipate those speaker cabinet vibrations. Your explanation of what happens when speaker spikes couple to a floor and why that's not optimal makes perfectly good sense from an engineering standpoint. My question revolves around whether it's better to decouple at the spike/floor interface or the interface between outrigger/speaker interface. For instance, my Tidal Piano Ceras have rigid steel outriggers bolted to deeply embedded m10 inserts in the cabinet and the outriggers are coupled to vibration dissipating feet that use a ball in the vertical plane interface and silicone o-rings in the horizontal plane interface for their effect. A number of reviewers and owners reportedly improve upon the stock vibration reducing feet by replacing them with with Stillpoints. By using interfaces at the end of the outriggers you have the option of using larger, more efficient dissipation/decoupling solutions. If you decouple between the cabinet/outrigger, it seems that your option are limited to things like Grungebuster dots. If using your products, wouldn't it be more efficient to decouple from the floor using some variant of your Glider/decoupling Glider as opposed to Grungebusters at the outrigger/cabinet interface?

Herbie

Re: Idea for a Herbie's "kit" - for Soundocity Outriggers
« Reply #7 on: 6 Jul 2014, 01:16 pm »
Hi, Photon46. We're on the same boat. Speakers that are very tall relative to their width, like Revel F206 and Piano Ceras, can be problematic regarding isolation because of their narrow footprint, especially if on a thick, spongy carpet. The primary purpose of outriggers is to provide more lateral stability with a wider footprint. Outriggers will often provide a stable enough footprint to use Giant Fat Gliders under the Outrigger spikes, which provides perhaps the best and most thorough isolation possible. There's more latitude for other isolation approaches as well.

With extremely tall and narrow speakers, spiking securely to the floor is sometimes the only option for cabinet stability. In this case, a thin, non-squishy decoupling interface between Outrigger and speaker cabinet is about the only viable solution to obtain some degree of decoupling between speaker and floor. You don't want to use Sorbothane, rubber, or other vulcanized material that will introduce its own resonances into the vibrational environment. "Thin" Fat Dots are ideal to provide a decoupling interface and maintain speaker stability.

With most speakers on stands or platforms, the speaker-to-stand interface is most essential, especially monitor speakers on relatively tall stands. Thicker Fat Dots are usually ideal here, with more vibration absorbing and blocking "beef" than "Thin" Fat Dots. Addressing the stand-to-floor interface is additionally beneficial, of course. (With Outriggers, it's just the opposite: the stand/floor interface would be primary and the stand/speaker interface secondary or even optional.)

With speakers on Outriggers (or other base), if the speaker and base are rigidly secured with screws or bolts, the base basically functions as an extension of the speaker cabinet and isolation of the speaker can be addressed at the base/floor interface. Isolation/decoupling between the speaker and base always has potential to add additional, complementary benefit.

Steve
Herbie's Audio Lab

smilach

Re: Idea for a Herbie's "kit" - for Soundocity Outriggers
« Reply #8 on: 4 Sep 2014, 12:16 am »
I just brought a pair of Von Schweikert Audio VR-33's into my home and I am giving serious consideration to picking up the Soundocity outriggers to increase the stability of these trapezoidal speakers.  I would be very interested if there was a "Soundocity Kit" of Thin Fat Dots available.

Herbie

Re: Idea for a Herbie's "kit" - for Soundocity Outriggers
« Reply #9 on: 4 Sep 2014, 12:53 am »
Hi, smilach. I can economically punch "Thin" Fat Dots for you in virtually any sizes besides the standard "small" and "regular" mentioned on our website. Or, you can purchase a 5" x 8" sheet of dBNeutralizer and cut your own Dots, squares, or any shape (the material cuts easily with a razor, hobby knife, or scissors).

I don't think there will be a "Soundocity Kit" because the parameters involved vary considerably, not universally, from one speaker type to another and five different sizes of Outriggers.

You can use the "Contact Us" link on our website for special order information, if you like.

Steve Herbelin
Herbie's Audio Lab

smilach

Re: Idea for a Herbie's "kit" - for Soundocity Outriggers
« Reply #10 on: 5 Sep 2014, 05:01 am »
If I decide not to purchase the Soundocity outriggers, what would you recommend for 105 pound speakers on a berber carpet with thin padding over a wood floor?  Perhaps the Giant Fat Glider?

Herbie

Re: Idea for a Herbie's "kit" - for Soundocity Outriggers
« Reply #11 on: 5 Sep 2014, 05:07 am »
Giant Fat Gliders would be an excellent choice.

Steve Herbelin
Herbie's Audio Lab