[rodge827]

Congrats on the purchase. 
I have been very intrigued with Steve's amps for some time and the Mystery amp would be a perfect fit in my system.
Thanks for taking the plunge and please report back often (full review warts and all) on how it sounds! 

Chris

[Guy 13]

It never got pretty (have to build another one 1st) It is an El-Cheapo derivative.



dave

Hi Dave.
El Cheapo... Hummm...
Sometimes El Cheapo stuff sounds mucho good.

Guy 13

[planet10]

El Cheapo... Hummm...

El Cheapo is a topology by Eli Duttman.

Thisis executed on a Dcott LK-48 and uses decent part sincluding all Solen poly PS caps.

dave

[planet10]

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/252999-40w-class-pp-kt66.html#post3859310

dave

[jsm71]

Ok, so far about half the replies are actually interested in this amp and the other half wants to expose Steve Deckert as some kind of huckster.  Steve chooses to avoid the mainstream marketing methods in favor of keeping his designs a bit unglamorous and his costs down.  I had to do some research as well on his products and business model before I dropped my money down.  I will admit that Steve promotes his gear with enthusiasm and claims great success with each and every model.  I can live that since his website is his only market reach method.  The man is available to anyone on the phone and warrants his products to the original buyer for life.  I realize that means Steve's life, not the buyer's.  He doesn't seem to have an apprentice.

The internet exposes everything.  I was certainly curious to read accounts from customers who chose his products and why.  Many of his customers were repeat buyers including Doorman who posted a reply to this thread.  Why would people come back for more if the products or the company disappointed?  I was focused on what other brands people dismissed in order to buy a Decware piece.  I saw evidence of people moving off of brands like Rogue, Primaluna, Manley, various Chinese brands, as well as more upscale units from Cary and even Atma Sphere.  Some did so to get into lower priced gear, but most did so on sonic improvement reasons.

To be fair I also looked pretty hard to find web postings of people who moved AWAY from Decware to see why and what they bought.  I couln't find any evidence of popular brands in similar price ranges ousting Decware gear for sonic reasons.  In fact the few threads I was able to find were people going the DIY route in favor of Bottlehead gear.  Those designs seem pretty valid and I can see why pride of DIY is a reason to go that route.

Decware has had a growing customer base for over 15 years.  If Steve's designs were crap or they were so badly misrepresented surely his own customers would have not kept quiet online.  His business would have never grown beyond just a few groupies at best.  Customers rave about the quality sound, price notwithstanding.  Lastly I have a friend in the business who is an accomplished engineer in the speaker trade and knows Steve.  He has had plenty of opportunity to warn me away from doing business with Decware.  To the contrary, he classifies Steve's products as well designed and built. 

The negatives for his products IMO are all due to cost containment.  They include:
1.  Long wait times to get a product.  Decware doesn't keep inventory.  Every purchase is somewhat custom.
2.  Nothing on the unit is marked.  You have to learn about his gear and know what goes where.
3.  The look and feel is basic.  He mounts all the transformers, tubes, and controls on the top plate.  ICs, speaker wire, and PCs also attach to the top plate.
4.  Real user manuals aren't posted until well after a unit has been sold to the first dozen or so customers.  Again, you have to know the product well.
5.  His products are not audio jewely.  No thick milled face plates, fancy logos, status lights, or gleaming covers.

The ZMA (as did the Torii I just swapped out) sounds way better than the expensive big name SS amps I've owned.  I am new to tube amps but I've been using a Cary SLP 98P tube preamp for a number of years and love it.  The only other tube amp I've spent some time listening to was a Primaluna model and I made the right choice.

I'll step off my soapbox now, but I am also now a repeat customer. 

[planet10]

the other half wants to expose Steve Deckert as some kind of huckster

I have no comments on the quality of the product (an enjoyable period with a pair of Decware Zens  launched extensive diy exploration of tube amps), but the hyperbole and sometimes outright mistruths with which he (sometimes) markets his products. He has been caught at this and subsequently dialed down the rheatoric on his website.

This Amp is called a Class A 38W no NFB amplifier. If it is Cass A it is not 38 W, if it is 38 W it is Class AB (the last most likely). So something is not true.

If it has no negative feedback, it will have a very high output impedance (not specified). Personally i like that, but if it is the case, then the FR of the amplifier will be heavily modulated by the impedance of the loudspeaker it is connected too. Given the speakers likely to be used with i find that it is hard to beleive that feedback has been lft out. A simple tracing of the circuit would quickly show if there is or is not one.

And there are other red flags... one the big caps substituting for no choke -- maybe at 1st a LF 1st order PS may give better rejection than a higher 2nd order filter, but with those big caps so close to the cap-killing heat of the output tubes, one has to wonder for how long...

dave

[doorman]

Has anyone, perhaps a potential buyer, asked Steve how the power figures are arrived at ?
Not being a diy amp guy, I can't comment on the advertised specs, only the satisfaction
my current & previous (Decware)amps have supplied.
I too have been less than comfortable with the marketing hype though.
It has tended to be "enthusiastic" to say the least.

[bladesmith]

Jsm71,

Your amp is terrific, sometimes you have to ignore the people who want to rain on your day.

And you also have to wonder,  what is there "real motivation".

Enjoy the new sounds.

Bladesmith

[Guy 13]

Hi all.
I am the pround owner of a Decware SE84C+.
Just my humble opinion as an owner of many different brands
of amplifiers over the last 40 years.

Pro:
Very well built.
100% made in USA
Quality parts
Great tube rolling possibilities
Sounds great
You can write or call the owner/designer Steve
and get a quick response,
something extremely rare these days.)

Con.
No controls identification
(You must know what does what)
No instruction manual
Price a little high
(But if you consider the life time warranty,
maybe not that high.)

That's it.

Guy 13



Yes, it's a Decware, but the Audio 13 version,
only difference, the Audio 13 front name plate.

[JakeJ]

I think Decware has been berated enough in this thread.  You can get just as much or more hyperbole stepping onto a new car dealer showroom floor or a lot other crap in the universe.  Enjoy your music, that's what really counts, not Watts.

Guy,

I like your Audio 13 faceplate.  Nice touch.

[Guy 13]

I think Decware has been berated enough in this thread.  You can get just as much or more hyperbole stepping onto a new car dealer showroom floor or a lot other crap in the universe.  Enjoy your music, that's what really counts, not Watts.

Guy,

I like your Audio 13 faceplate.  Nice touch.

Hi JakeJ
Thanks.
I wish one day, Audio 13 become reality.
But I don't think it will happen,
unless my wife wins the jack pot at the lottery,
but even if she wins, I might not see the color of a single 100 $ bill.

Guy 13
Audio 13
 

[jsm71]

A couple of people asked for a sound update.  I've pretty much crossed the 100 hour mark and the nature of this amp is becoming apparent.  When it was new I knew from other owners that the initial edge to the sound would smooth out.  It certainly has.  So much so that I have been able to dial in more high end with the tweeter control on my speakers (JansZen zA2.1s).  These speakers reveal everything and what I'm hearing is transparency and deep soundstage.  The bass urged from this amp has brought the JansZens up a notch, a nice benefit.  Good gear should do that.  I've been holding on to a Sanders Magtech just in case this amp didn't shine through enough to miss SS.  I sold the Magtech to a local friend who needed the power.  I'm set at this point.  No sonic complaints at all.  It's the best sounding amp I've owned.

[DaveC113]

Obviously, it goes into AB at some point. "Class A" does sound better for marketing I guess. Also larger caps can't "make up" for no choke.

Despite the dubious marketing claims, most folks seem to be very happy with their amps.

[bzr]

A couple of people asked for a sound update.  I've pretty much crossed the 100 hour mark and the nature of this amp is becoming apparent.  When it was new I knew from other owners that the initial edge to the sound would smooth out.  It certainly has.  So much so that I have been able to dial in more high end with the tweeter control on my speakers (JansZen zA2.1s).  These speakers reveal everything and what I'm hearing is transparency and deep soundstage.  The bass urged from this amp has brought the JansZens up a notch, a nice benefit.  Good gear should do that.  I've been holding on to a Sanders Magtech just in case this amp didn't shine through enough to miss SS.  I sold the Magtech to a local friend who needed the power.  I'm set at this point.  No sonic complaints at all.  It's the best sounding amp I've owned.

   Wow, that right there, bold & underlined is true testament to just what you think of the Decware.  The Sanders Magtech is one hell of an amp that betters some amps many, many times the price. Great feedback with realtime comparison.

[JLM]

I looked at the ZMA earlier this year as it would be a good match to my speakers, tried for years to be a DecHead (but had to give up because he only offered a maximum of 6 wpc at that time), and I loved the sound (abet bloated bass and limited spls) from the SE34I I'd borrowed.  Steve skills in circuit design was largely self-taught, making him more of a backwoods inventor than a world class theorist, which is what IMO gets him in trouble with those more knowledgable.  So care must be given (beyond obvious wattage concerns) in matching particular Decware amps to given speakers. 

Love the idea of supporting efforts of hand-built gear from America's heartland, but in the end went with a PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium Integrated (2014 Stereophile class A rated, multiple professional reviews, and cheaper - review forthcoming).

[jsm71]

Good luck with the PrimaLuna Integrated.  I actually looked at that.  My local dealer had it set up in a demo room with Goldenear Triton 2s.  The amp was driving the speakers ok but the amp's soundstage didn't get my attention.  It seemed like a reasonable value for an integrated but it was not what I was looking for.  I wanted a tube amp that had sufficient transparency to open up everything in 3D without sounding euphonic.  The ZMA has the 3D magic, so not SS, but also not syrupy either.  I do think with the latest price hike the ZMA is getting pricey but I have no idea what product you would have to aim at to equal the sound quality.  I also have a good tube preamp with phono stage so I didn't need an integrated.

I don't think Steve's design skills get him "in trouble".  His USA hand built products are quite well made and do last.  The lifetime warranty doesn't get invoked often at all or he would have dropped that years ago.  His over the top enthusiasm and website claims sometimes get challenged.  For example, the ZMA is touted to be 40 watts class A.  The truth is that it is heavily biased class A, but will go to AB on peaks.  I learned this after the fact in a discussion with Steve.  At what wattage this occurs would take measurement tools and probably isn't heard unless your speakers are a difficult load.  All I know is that my last SS amp was high quality and ran class AB basically all the time.  The ZMA's sound is what I was looking for.   

[bacobits1]

You do have to keep in mind your speaker choices more so with the Decware amps. I ran for some time the SV83's in Mono and later for a longer time the SV83 Sig Monos with the chrome top decks. They were very good used with the Zero Autoformers set to 2 Ohms on Brines single driver speakers also ran Coincident speakers too.
I just heard those Golden Ear Triton 2's are you sure it was the amps that sounded closed in and not transparent?
I  heard them with an Ayre Integrated and they sounded that way. I did not care for them at all especially at the price.
 
The amp speaker interface is quite important I found.
Decware is up in price now I would have to consider something else at those prices.
Just my opinion. 

[TEH725]

I stumbled across this thread while looking for information on 6n23p input tubes along with this review of the ZMA.

I think this summarizes things rather well.

http://www.tonepublications.com/spotlight/2014-product-of-the-year-amplifier/

[TEH725]

Full Review here:

[url][/http://www.tonepublications.com/review/decware-zen-mystery-amp/url]

[jsm71]

TEH725, thanks for posting that review. 

I also saw that review well after I had my unit for quite some time.  Earlier this year I stepped up my vinyl gear with a Delos Lyra cartridge and Bob's Sky 20 SUT.  That was an immediate improvement over a MM Clearaudio Virtuoso, also a pretty good cart.  After a couple of months breakin, mostly for the SUT, sounds really opened up.  The ZMA exploited this upgrade quite well and is worthy of the award IMO.