[stereo5]

I received the speakers, courtesy of FedEx this morning.  Took me a while to uncrate them and set them up, but I finally got to hear them.  The bass is everything I had hoped for, but the midbass seems a little thin.  I will play around with placement this weekend.  I also noticed that at low volumes, the overall sound is a little less full, but fills out at higher volumes.   My other speakers seen in the background sound terrific at low volume.  Ay ideas?

A few pictures.









 

[steve f]

First, congrats on your new speakers. I don't think you have a real problem, but just a couple of set up issues. Be patient and continue to move the speakers around. I'm sure you will find a good location. How does the tweeter compare to woofer and midrange level? Remember if you continue to have difficulties, there are a lot of good people here on the forum and at VSA who will help out. Regards,
Steve

[opnly bafld]

http://vonschweikertaudio.com/vr-33/

"Easy to place, the VR-33 are designed to sit close to a rear wall to save space, but more importantly, to provide the same room-to-room balance so that every audiophile will be able to enjoy the finest sound quality available."

Lin

[DARTH AUDIO]

You have at least 500 to 700 hours of break-in time. If you live in a house, I'd crank them all day long. These speakers excel at low levels! Placement is critical. I've owned the 33's and now the 35's.

Enjoy,

Gary

[stereo5]

I bought the speakers used and they are 15 months old.  I would assume they are well broken in by now.  A thought:  my preamp reverses polarity so I have always reversed the polarity on the amplifier end to compensate.  Audible Illusions (the maker of the preamp) advises to do this.  I may try reversing the polarity back and see if it makes a difference.  I doubt it will, but it's worth a try.

[SundayNiagara]

Reversing the polarity at the amp end is the correct way.  That way the + and - signals travel thru the proper cables.

[BigSwede]

I received the speakers, courtesy of FedEx this morning.  Took me a while to uncrate them and set them up, but I finally got to hear them.  The bass is everything I had hoped for, but the midbass seems a little thin.  I will play around with placement this weekend.  I also noticed that at low volumes, the overall sound is a little less full, but fills out at higher volumes.   My other speakers seen in the background sound terrific at low volume.  Ay ideas?

In my experience, low volume thinness is more of an amplifier problem than speaker. But you say it wasn't a problem with your old speakers, so maybe not in this case.

All I can say is keep experimenting with placement, as I don't have any of those problems. And while they may have had some break-in, they may not have either. it wouldn't be the first time someone sold a speaker before it was even fully broken in.

[jackman]

Do you have a test disc to make sure speakers are in proper phase?  You could probably download a test for free.  There is a good stereophile disc. If they are in proper phase, and you can't improve sound by alternate placement, perhaps these speakers are not to your liking. We all have personal preferences and maybe the VSA speakers are not for you.

I don't think hundreds of hours of break in will change anything except your perception. You may get used to the sound but I doubt it will magically change and sound fuller in the midrange. Also, maybe the amp is not a good match.

Good luck,
Jack

[mdconnelly]

I've got VR-35s and when I moved to a smaller room, really struggled with speaker position for awhile.    Don't be afraid to shove them up against the wall.   I know it's counter-intuitive, but as opnly bafld commented, they are designed to couple with the front wall.  I currently have mine just 3" from the wall.  It really helped to tightened up the bass and  I swear it also improved dynamics.  You might find that pushing them closer to the front wall may improve what you're calling low-volume thinness. 

[steve f]

I still want to know if the tweeter level seems to be closer to the midrange or woofer level. Why? Because if the woofer is louder than both upper frequency drivers, the problem becomes one of speaker placement, or the previous owner may have messed with the stuffing a bit. 
The guys who question the amp compatibility may be on to something too. Borrow a different amp and compare.

As audiophiles, we tend to mix and match components to eliminate the flaws of the system, rather than find the most neutral equipment we can buy. I've been guilty of that one, quite accidentally I might add.

Here is an example of how a speaker system can sound remarkably different. I had the pleasure of listening to VSA's flagship system at both Axpona and San Francisco last year. In Chicago, something was wrong. I don't know if the amps that were in at the time were undersized, or someone has messed with the settings. In any case, during my visit, the system was lacking. Flash forward to the San Francisco show. Totally different experience. Best of show sound.  Same loudspeaker system.

The VR-33 is a clever design. I can't imagine it not sounding good after you get it dialed in. Keep trying for awhile, and if you still have problems, call VSA.

Steve

Edit: I totally agree with mdconnelly and Lin.  The speakers are designed for 1/2 PI placement. Start at the wall and move out from there.

[kernelbob]

Regarding polarity or absolute phase, I've found that there isn't a consistent setting from one recording to another (even from the same label).  I select the correct setting on my DAC's remote.  It just takes a couple of seconds.  I often can tell if the sound is correct or not without even having to test the opposite setting.  Even non-audiophile visitors s can easily hear the difference in my system.  One thing, though, I've found that if I invert polarity using a mechanical switch such as on a preamp, the difference is usually masked by the degradation caused by a change in the signal path going through another path (i.e. through an additional switch).  I've found the best place to select the best sounding polarity is through the DAC's software.

So, I wouldn't concern myself with whether the preamp, amplifier, etc inverts polarity since roughly half of the recordings will need to have the setting changed anyway.  I wouldn't own a system where I couldn't change the absolute polarity/phase from the remote.

Regards,
Robert

[stereo5]

I had the speakers as close to the wall as possible which was about 4 inches.  From there, I played a bass track and it sounds much better 8 inches from the wall.  It definitely isn't my amp as I have a Classe Fifteen amp in my office system and substituted my regular amp for the Classe.  It didn't change the thinness and the Classe amp is dark sounding to boot.  I am not prepared to spend any more money chasing down amps and or speaker cables as the speakers were a BIG stretch for me as it is.  The person I bought the speakers from estimates at least 2000 hours on the speakers so they are broken in.

[BigSwede]

I settled on 9" from the wall in my house. I have plaster walls, which might respond differently than a thinner and more resonant sheetrock wall, not sure.

[stereo5]

I have an old house with horsehair walls.  I have them now placed 8 inches from the wall and I played Folk Singer by Muddy Waters.  It never sounded so good.  Even at high volumes, his voice didn't sound strained.  The mid bass definitely got a bit fuller at this distance from the walls..  I know I will be playing around with placement for the next couple of weeks, and that is why I always hesitate to buy new speakers.

[JackD201]

Welcome to the wonderful disfunctional VSA family Stereo! 

[BigSwede]

I know I will be playing around with placement for the next couple of weeks, and that is why I always hesitate to buy new speakers.

Yeah, I remember second-guessing myself quite a bit when I wrote the check for the VR-33s without ever hearing them. But I have no regrets, they are wonderful speakers that suit me perfectly.

[stereo5]

I had similar reservations and even though I bought mine used, it was still a lot of coin.  I have been getting more used to the sound of the speakers and have now moved the speakers to 9 inches from the wall.  The bass is very tight and deep and the soundstage is wall to wall.  I did have to turn the right speaker a couple of degrees towards me as it seemed at times I wasn't hearing all the right channel information.  I am happier with the speakers now than when I first got them.  I still miss the deeper midbass of my Odyssey Kismet Reference Speakers, but tomorrow I will be putting them into my office system.  Looks like I will be putting a pair of Vandersteen 2ce speakers up for sale soon as these will be going back into their boxes to make room for the Kismets.  It will be the first time since 1992 that I won't have a Vandersteen playing in the house.

Over the course of the next week, I will fine tune the speakers a bit more.  I am probably 90% there but it's that extra 10% that makes the magic.  Can anyone tell me what the spikes when added to the VR-33 speakers,  will do to the sound?  These speakers can play very loud.  I had peaks of 98+ db today when playing the MOFI cd of The Yes Album.  My Kismets couldn't really do much better than 94-95 db before the sound got congested.  I do miss the Kismets for low level listening though.  They sounded really great at low volume which I still can't duplicate with the VR-33's.   Here is an up-close picture of the Kismet speaker.

[kernelbob]

My experience with adding the spikes to VSA speakers has been with VR6, VR4SR, and VR5-Annis.  All of them improved in the same ways, specifically:

More low frequency extension
Tighter, more controlled bass
Better resolution of instrumental bass detail
Punchier midbass
Better, more precise imaging
You notice that there had been a blurring or smearing, now more focused.  This is not just in the deep bass, but up into the midrange.  Some of that is psychoacoustic since tighter more controlled bass helps the sense of speed in the midrange also.

Anyway, that's been my experience.  The more powerful the bass is in your system, the more the spikes will help.

Best,
Robert

[stereo5]

I pretty much have the speakers dialed in now and the sound is excellent.  I spent about 3 hours listening today.  I tried to read a magazine but the music kept distracting me and just drew me in.

[gme109]

I had similar reservations and even though I bought mine used, it was still a lot of coin.  I have been getting more used to the sound of the speakers and have now moved the speakers to 9 inches from the wall.  The bass is very tight and deep and the soundstage is wall to wall.  I did have to turn the right speaker a couple of degrees towards me as it seemed at times I wasn't hearing all the right channel information.  I am happier with the speakers now than when I first got them.  I still miss the deeper midbass of my Odyssey Kismet Reference Speakers, but tomorrow I will be putting them into my office system.  Looks like I will be putting a pair of Vandersteen 2ce speakers up for sale soon as these will be going back into their boxes to make room for the Kismets.  It will be the first time since 1992 that I won't have a Vandersteen playing in the house.

Over the course of the next week, I will fine tune the speakers a bit more.  I am probably 90% there but it's that extra 10% that makes the magic.  Can anyone tell me what the spikes when added to the VR-33 speakers,  will do to the sound?  These speakers can play very loud.  I had peaks of 98+ db today when playing the MOFI cd of The Yes Album.  My Kismets couldn't really do much better than 94-95 db before the sound got congested.  I do miss the Kismets for low level listening though.  They sounded really great at low volume which I still can't duplicate with the VR-33's.   Here is an up-close picture of the Kismet speaker.

Based on what I heard when I added the spikes to my 35's, I'd say it adds at least a 10% or more improvement to the overall sound.  kernelbob's comments pretty much mirror my experience when adding spikes. So spikes plus further fine tuning of your 33's should put a pretty big smile on your face.