[jackman]

Hi Guys,

I noticed this speaker today (not in the market, just curious) and don't understand why they would put the tweeter so far from the woofer.  I understand the tweeter should be near ear level and that there are positive benefits of mounting a woofer at the bottom of the front baffle but wouldn't the speaker suffer from lobing and integration problems by having the drivers so far apart?  I've never seen a two way speaker with drivers so far apart.  Could these possibly sound good?  I'm sure there is someone out there who loves the way these sound, but I'm scratching my head. 

[Vapor Audio]

Yes, poorly conceived driver layout.  The builder, whoever that is, needs more fundamental understanding of the variables at play. 

Lobing would be quite obvious with that layout, the sound would certainly change dramatically with movement around the room.  But even more than that is that your entire midrange is going to be coming from well below ear level, and will certainly pull the soundstage down to baseboard level.  Whoever build those should cut another hole for a midrange just below the tweeter and make it a 3-way.

[JLM]

Agreed. I'd expect driver integration to be very poor (unless somehow the tweeter goes down to say 160 Hz). This would destroy imaging or near field listening.

If the dome behaved like an extended range driver (7 octave range or more), it could be a good design, but that typically requires a 3 inch or larger diameter driver.

[Letitroll98]

Yes, poorly conceived driver layout.  The builder, whoever that is, needs more fundamental understanding of the variables at play. 

Lobing would be quite obvious with that layout, the sound would certainly change dramatically with movement around the room.  But even more than that is that your entire midrange is going to be coming from well below ear level, and will certainly pull the soundstage down to baseboard level.  Whoever build those should cut another hole for a midrange just below the tweeter and make it a 3-way.

Roy Allison, the pioneer of speakers with the woofers on the floor, only made this design as a three way with a wide dispersion midrange driver mounted directly under the tweeter.  His two ways all had the tweeter nearly on the same plane as the woofer. 

[FullRangeMan]

Hi Guys,

I noticed this speaker today (not in the market, just curious) and don't understand why they would put the tweeter so far from the woofer.  I understand the tweeter should be near ear level and that there are positive benefits of mounting a woofer at the bottom of the front baffle but wouldn't the speaker suffer from lobing and integration problems by having the drivers so far apart?  I've never seen a two way speaker with drivers so far apart.  Could these possibly sound good?  I'm sure there is someone out there who loves the way these sound, but I'm scratching my head. 

I may be wrong but seems this speaker are using this just to looks like a Avalon.
It all depend from the xover, Twt & Woofer apart are not unsual in hi-fi.
The Consequence model from DYN Audio keep in line for more than 10 years:

The consequence xover was modeled to work with the drivers inverted symmetry.

[jackman]

Fullrange,

There are lots of examples of speakers with tweeters mounted far away from woofers, but they usually have other drivers in between, multiple tweeters and midrange drivers.  The one in the picture just has a lot of empty space/wood between the drivers.  I forgot the brand, they were on Audiogon and the owner said they were an older but highly regarded design, etc. 

I did not want to post a link because it's an active listing and I didn't want to mess with a person's sale.  Also, I have no interest in buying them, just wanted to hear what people thought about the design.  Thanks

[FullRangeMan]

Fullrange,

There are lots of examples of speakers with tweeters mounted far away from woofers, but they usually have other drivers in between, multiple tweeters and midrange drivers.  The one in the picture just has a lot of empty space/wood between the drivers.  I forgot the brand, they were on Audiogon and the owner said they were an older but highly regarded design, etc. 

I did not want to post a link because it's an active listing and I didn't want to mess with a person's sale.  Also, I have no interest in buying them, just wanted to hear what people thought about the design.  Thanks

I thought that speaker was a home made DIY.
I was refer to the Avalon Avatar, but this speaker may be the Avatar itself, as they looks the same.
Google for Avalon Avatar.

[stereocilia]

The Hales Concept 2 had a big space between the drivers as well. 

[jackman]

Maybe modern designers have smartened up because I don't see any modern designs that have that big a fap between woofers and tweeters.  Hales is out if business. If only they would have placed the woofers closer to the tweeters!

[persisting1]

The Usher BE-20s has a significant lob. I believe someone commissioned Danny Ritchie to redesign the crossover for these speakers.

[ricardojoa]

I thought that the spacing relates to driver center to center distance as well as crossover points. Looking at the first pic, it does seems like the desingner skipped the midrange. But if he was using a larger tweeter, something like the accuton 2" high -mid, a slightly closer CTC distance and a smaller wooder, it guess it might actually work at a further listening position.

[Duke]

With a steep enough crossover, any vertical lobing would be confined to a narrow segment of the spectrum. 

It looks like the front baffle is vertical, so the first-arrival sound will be from the tweeters.   That would help to keep the image height up where it belongs. 

If the crossover is south of 2 kHz, and preferably south of 1.5 kHz, I think it could work at normal listening distances.  A steep crossover is again indicated, as that would allow you to safely push the crossover frequency lower.  Then there are advantages to having the woofer down closer to the floor like that.  Both drivers up high is probably what I'd have done, but just about everything's a tradeoff in speaker design.  Assuming the right drivers and implementation, maybe the designer found a window of opportunity that most of us would have overlooked.   I wonder how many listeners would correctly guess the height of the woofer with the grille in place.

If this is in fact a Neil Patel Design, I immediately give it full benefit of the doubt.  He is superb.

[brj]

As others have said, the speakers do appear to be Avalon Avatars, which I believe was one of the last Avalon designs created by Charles Hansen before he left to found Ayre and Niel Patel took over Avalon and their future designs.

Manual.  (You can see the amount of slope to the front baffle in figure 2.1)