[nathan_klassen]

My System:
Quad 21L Speakers, FT Audio LW1S2 Passive Pre-Amp, NAD C350 Integrated (To Be Replaced), Toshiba SD-430V (To be Replaced, NearSota OTA Speaker Wire (BiWired), Kimber 4 Strand Copper OEM Interconnects.  

Music / Movies: 60/40 All music genres except for country/heavy metal/punk.

The direction I've been gearing my system towards is a move away from my integrated and to proper seperates.  So to that I end I have purchased one of FT Audio's LW1S2 Passive Pre-Amps and am looking for an amplifier to pair it with.  The amplifier at the top of my list (within my 500-600 USD price range) is the Monarchy SM-70.

So what's the problem?  I always thought that seperates would be better than an integrated.  Yes there's the additional cost of interconnect but that's not so much of an issue.

My one dealer believes that I should ditch my passive pre and move to an integrated such as the Roksan Caspian, and feels that within this price range there is  no point to look at seperates.  

While the other dealer has made it possible to enjoy a very nice little seperates system with the Monarchy SM-70 and the LW1S2.

So I guess what this boils down to is - in this budget range is it better to look at integrated amps, or seperates.  I do already have the passive pre-amp.

I especially welcome any comments regarding how you feel the SM-70 would be in my system.

Thanks again,

Nathan Klassen

[Hantra]

Nathan:

No question the SM-70 is a fine amplifier.  I also have owned the Caspian.  I have had quite a few integrateds:

Roksan Caspian
Jolida 1500
Arcam 100
Plinius 8200 MkII
Quad 88 integrated
Perreaux Radiance 200i

Also, I have had too many separates to even BEGIN to list.  I am back to an integrated.  Not because of anything in particular, but because of the sound.  

I wouldn't restrict myself to anything in particular.  Especially at your price range, there are many products that are great in integrateds, AND separates.  

You'll get more bang for the buck on an integrated as a general rule, but that's no reason to limit yourself to anything.  When you get locked into one idea, you miss out on some great things.  If I had been locked into the idea that separates rule, and they are the only thing for me. . . Then I would not have even auditioned the inegrated I have now, and I would have missed an amazing piece.

L8r,

B

[beat]

Here is a good "for instance":
I just swapped some tubes from vintage rca to some NOS bugleboys in my <$100 used bottlehead foreplay pre. I just hooked up my used IRD MB-100 monoblocks. I listened to a few things and was pushing hard to hear any difference between that system and what I had just unplugged. What I had just unplugged was my marantz 7300 integrated 6 channel fed from a very nice transport and external dac. What is feeding my mb-100s now is a Nec $30 dollar transport to a borrowed $800 dac (overpriced IMHO) to my <$100 foreplay with 40 bucks worth of scored nos bugleboys. I have <$600 dollars in my mb-100s and foreplay including tubes.  The point I am trying to make is that right now I have never heard Radiohead sound so good..vocals I have heard better with the same system but with my tubed monoblocks.. any sort of complex digital rock type of music, at first, I had to really strain to hear anything that bettered the marantz... but now that the tubes are burning in they are opening up and I am hearing things I never had before with any of my other solid state amps, and for the first time I heard better than what the marantz offered.  Therefore, what I am saying is I am really digging the separates because I get to play around with them. If you want to plug and play and forget about it you are alittle more pigeon holed into one sound except for cables, dacs, and transports which is plenty and probably enough for alot of people.  I have some integrateds that are really hard to beat and make certain speakers really sing due to some tone control.  The whole short signal path idea is inherent with an integrated if it is done well so that is a bonus as well. I think it boils down to how much do you want to modify and tinker around with your system, really.
hope that helps more than confuses,
beat

[cjr888]

I wouldn't restrict myself to anything in particular. Especially at your price range, there are many products that are great in integrateds, AND separates.

You'll get more bang for the buck on an integrated as a general rule, but that's no reason to limit yourself to anything. When you get locked into one idea, you miss out on some great things. If I had been locked into the idea that separates rule, and they are the only thing for me. . . Then I would not have even auditioned the inegrated I have now, and I would have missed an amazing piece.

I'd have to agree with Hantra -- unless you have an absolute need to keep the FT around, keep an eye on for any solution.  You mentioned budget of $500-600 and cost of additional interconnect.  First, do you see yourself falling into the "hobby' or trap of continually upgrading down the road, or are you pretty much trying to stick to a specific budget for now and the future?  Granted many of us have started that way, only to find years (or months) down the road that funding meant for the rest of your life has been redireted towards audio....

I've heard good things of the Monarchy, but figuring cost of FT + interconnects + Monarchy and you end up in the same territory as integrated such as the Audio Aero Prima, Unico, Mesa Tigris, MF, Creek, BV Audio, Plinius 8100, Arcam, etc.

If you think you're succeptable to audio-nervousa or upgraditis, stick the the integrated -- it will put some shackles around you, and if you want to try something new, stick with integrateds as well -- it will leave you with one singe thing to swap out....  The more devices the more variables...

On a budget, and unless you''re a give-me-every-detail-want-to-hear-the-exact-recording-even-if-its-awful person, you might want to towards some of the hybrid integrateds..  Keeps you at your price point, still able to properly drive the Quad's, and gives you something a little different or special in presentation vs. a lot of the budget amplifiers whose character doesn't seem THAT different...  If you are more of that, look towards maybe a BVAudio integrated....or heck, while you're figuring things out, give one of the cheapy digital receivers a try.  

I have and have had everything from 3w and 5w 2a3's and 300b's to PP's to digital amplifiers to SS amplifiers to way too many integrated to vintage receivers to passive preamplifiers, TVC passives, active preamplifiers, and everything in between...  Some of the cheap stuff, combined with the right speakers was great, integrated or not -- some of the ultra expensive seperates I could say the same thing about, but for which was a horrible match with certain speakers..

One thing that I've done a lot, in addition to seeking out other owners of your speakers and learning about their experiences is to contact plenty of dealers that sell them, far away dealers and make it clear that you wouldn't be buying from them, and get advice on what they've liked, whether they still sell them or not...  In addition to the peanut gallery's comments (me), no harm in chasing after people who have been through the same thought process you're going through already...

[MaxCast]

I'd ask each dealer to put his money where his mouth is and ask him to let you audition each in your system.  That is the only way to know for sure.

[mcgsxr]

I think that each person has voiced some great ideas, and I am sure each has experiences to back their suggestion.

As a long time user of integrateds, I used a Sugden A28B for 10 years, I can understand that side of the equation.  Having since replaced it with separates (analog B&K pre/pro and Teac Tripath amps) I can see that side too...

As for the mixture you suggest Nathan, both proprietors have commented positively on the great results of those pieces AFAIK.

The combo of LW and Monarchy would be an exceptional one, I would love to try it myself, and could not resist, given the market value of the Monarchy, and the fact that you already have the preamp...

PM me about the Sugden, my good friend who thought be might want it, now might want a Teac tripath like mine...

Mark in Canada

[nathan_klassen]

I'd ask each dealer to put his money where his mouth is and ask him to let you audition each in your system.  That is the only way to know for sure.

The Roksan Caspian integrated is out of my price range, but that dealer would let me audition it in home.  The Monarchy dealer has let me have it in my home and it is a very significant improvement over the NAD C350.

I'm actually pretty lucky for dealers here in this small city of 200k.  I had 6 different CD players (Roksan Kandy mkIII, Rega Planet 2000, Creek CD50 mki, Cary 308, Arcam 73t, Cambridge Azur 640c) all on loan all in my house with no credit card required for verification.  So getting an inhome audition in this city is never the issue.

Hantra: I'd be curious of your impressions of the Monarchy SM-70 vs the Roksan Caspian stuff or even the Arcam or Plinius.

cjr888: "I've heard good things of the Monarchy, but figuring cost of FT + interconnects + Monarchy and you end up in the same territory as integrated such as the Audio Aero Prima, Unico, Mesa Tigris, MF, Creek, BV Audio, Plinius 8100, Arcam, etc. "

Well the FT Audio + Monarchy stomps the Creek.  This is evident in my personal audition time and also from my local Creek dealer who also happens to be the local Monarchy dealer.  And surprisingly enough, its a bit cheaper for me to get the Monarchy & the SM-70 than the Creek.  The Unico is not in my price range 800-900 on Audiogon.  I wasn't that impressed by the MF stuff carried formerly carried by another local dealer.  The Plinius 8200 seems to hover between 1300-1500 USD as well.


Thanks everyone for the advice I really do appreciate it.  I think that the LW1S2 & SM-70 is going to be a good match, and I'm getting the pair for a lot  less than the 'retail' prices.  I'm also planning to migrate to a multi-channel system eventually with a Pre/Processor and could use the Monarchy to power my rears at that point as well.

Thanks for all the advice all and if anyone else wants to weigh in on this I'd be appreciative as well.

And Mark from Canada, if your anywhere near Regina Saskatchewan once I make my decision your more than welcome to come over and hear the Monarch/Little Wonder (which is what I expect my decision to be)

[mcgsxr]

Nice job getting all that time with equipment in your own system, that really is the way to do it, if you can.

Glad that you have been able to hear the LW+Monarchy setup, I would love to - minor issue is the roughly 28-30 hour drive from Toronto...

In any case, let us know how it sounds, once you have it all set up and figured out!

Mark