Flying Moles

kbuzz3 · « **on:** 14 Aug 2004, 08:34 pm »

Anyone out there using a pair of the mono blocks. Ive been fooling around with them for about 2 months. Very interesting- and this is from a tube guy.

Would also like to know if anyone has tried using them in bi amp set up. Top or Bass set up.

I dont want to do the full review thing but they are very "organic" sounding for a non tube design. And well the size and price issues have been discussed

Thanks all for any comments.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Aug 2004, 07:15 am »

Flying Mole Link

First I've heard of this company....???[/list:u]

mcgsxr · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Aug 2004, 02:01 pm »

I have read some about these, but cannot seem to get an idea of the "entrance fee"... Anyone?

mark

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Aug 2004, 02:35 pm »

There was some discussion of them (last year, I think) in the Digital Domain. Stereo Times had a pretty favorable review of them. For the longest time I haven't known how/where you could actually buy them, but they look pretty interesting. Wish they made a version with a tad more power.

jgubman · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Aug 2004, 04:45 pm »

I saw them at CES last year, they were showing their mono amps that are hot-swapable and stackable. They had a full-length racks filled with them and said you could get as much power as you wanted by just adding more amp modules:
http://www.flyingmole.co.jp/en/products/dpam1616/index.html

They were also hawking this website:
http://store.hometheater2u.com/

, which almost a year later still doesn't have the swappable moles on them. I do notice they have a $350 digital amp though. Wasn't what they were showing at CES...

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Aug 2004, 05:02 pm »

Why not send Flying Mole an email, and ask them to drop in on this thread for some questions....just an idea

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Aug 2004, 05:07 pm »

they have no retail distriubution network yet that i know. Bought mine directly from the jim johns the north american contact..

Passive Chappy · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Aug 2004, 10:47 pm »

I had posted a mini review and other thoughts at AA so I thought I'd add it here to this thread.

But first a couple of links to reviews of Flying Mole products -

http://www.stereotimes.com/

Check in the archives for February 2004.....

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/flyingmole_dadm100proht_amps.htm

And of a sister product -

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/flying_mole_dpa_m1616.htm

And now for my more debate -

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/amp/messages/51181.html

and then this -

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/amp/messages/51316.html

I hope this helps the dialogue here.

werner52 · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Oct 2004, 04:19 am »

Currently own IRD's, had the moles for a test tonight. Myself and two other guests didn't feel that they displaced the IRD's and definately not for more money, so the moles are going back. They were powering Swan M1's so your mileage may vary with different speakers. Amazing for the size, it just didn't work for me.

Passive Chappy · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 Oct 2004, 02:20 pm »

If you're looking for more information on the Flying Moles there's a new website for Flying Mole USA at -

http://www.flyingmoleelectronics.com/

djbnh · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Oct 2004, 03:15 pm »

Here's a link to a review on "Flying Mole DAD-M100 pro HT monoblock amplifiers": http://www.stereotimes.com/amp021804.shtm

8thnerve · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Oct 2004, 04:00 pm »

By bypassing the volume control, I noticed HUGE gains in every aspect of these little amps. It is an easy process, simply disconnect the wire coming from the rear circuit board from the small circuit board at the front of the amp near the volume pot, then disconnect the wire connected from there to the main board. Then plug in the wire from the rear circuit board directly to the main board! No soldering, they use little plastic plugs.

This takes all of about a few minutes, and the results are not subtle. I don't know why they would leave this cheap volume circuit in, especially if they want to target an audiophile marketplace.

Has anyone else tried this?

GBB · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Oct 2004, 04:37 pm »

Quote from: 8thnerve

By bypassing the volume control, I noticed HUGE gains in every aspect of these little amps. This takes all of about a few minutes, and the results are not subtle. Has anyone else tried this?

Yes, I did the same thing on mine and noticed a huge improvement.
Next thing I'm considering is upgrading the input coupling cap. It looks to be a relatively ordinary electrolytic cap. I've got some 10uf Black Gate NXQ caps ready to swap in. I'll post results once I've done this.

---Gary

GBB · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Nov 2004, 03:09 pm »

Here's a picture of the input coupling caps from the Flying Moles:

As you can see they are run of the mill electrolytics, which probably aren't great for sound quality. I swapped them out with some 10uf 50v Black Gate NXQ caps this morning and I'm burning them in now. Its a pretty simple change assuming you know how to solder. They're located right by the input cable and are labelled S-in on the board.
Its probably premature to comment on sound quality, but I've had very good success with these Black Gates in other applications, so I'm hopeful this will be a good change.

---Gary

Passive Chappy · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Nov 2004, 05:30 am »

Hey GGB, I know you said it was premature to comment on the cap upgrade but can you give a fellow Flying Mole owner any kind of idea of what the sound might be like? I understand that Black Gates can sound bad for the first 200 hours of break in but do you hear any potential in the upgrade? I was thinking of getting a full blown upgrade from Underwood Audio but I was hoping to hear about some experiences before I went for it.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

GBB · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Nov 2004, 12:11 pm »

Quote from: Passive Chappy

I was thinking of getting a full blown upgrade from Underwood Audio but I was hoping to hear about some experiences before I went for it.

PC,
I don't know what Underwood Audio does to the Flying Moles, but I'd be reluctant to shell out too much money tweaking them - they already sound quite good stock.

The biggest improvement in sound came from bypassing the volume controls as suggested by our friends at Eighth Nerve. This is a really simple mod that anyone should be able to do. No soldering at all - just open up the case (you remove the 4 screws without arrows) and swap two plugs. It really opens up the soundstage and improves transparency. I'd try this one before sending it to anyone.

At this relatively early stage in the burn in process, I'd say that swapping out the input coupling caps is a more subtle change but still an improvement. Midrange is a bit cleaner and the high end sounds a bit less rolled off. This isn't always a good thing. When listening to an FM tuner, the high frequency birdies on my tuner are now more noticeable than they were before, so it does make the sound a bit less forgiving. I suspect this will clean up as the amps burn in.

In terms of what it should cost to do these mods, I always wonder about the cost/benefit trade off of modifying equipment. The two Black Gate caps cost $4.25 each from Michael Percy plus shipping. Lets say $15 total. Giving a 3x markup thats $50 in parts. It took about 30 minutes to swap out the caps, so assuming a generous $100/hr, I'd say it shouldn't cost more than $100 to mod these the way I have. But I'm not in business and perhaps I don't understand the economics.

I hope this helps.
---Gary

Passive Chappy · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Nov 2004, 04:55 am »

Thanks for the update GGB. It sounds like your Moles are on their way to becoming really kick ass.

I got a note from Kbuzz last August laying out the Underwood upgrades as follows -

Flying Mole modification

This is what we do:

- RCA jacks
- input wiring...changed, connector bypassed.
- Large Cardas BINDING posts added
- Input caps upgraded to Black Gates
- Output wiring upgraded
- EAR sorbothane feet added
- Input volume POT bypassed
- Rectifying diodes upgraded to HEXFRED's
- SOUND COAT chassis damping added
- 2.5 hours Labor

Cost is $525.00 per pair + frt.

Call Walter at 770-667-5633 to arrange for a mod

Certainly $525 can be considered a bit of money. But the upgrades look like they may put the Flying Moles into the big leagues. I still have to do research on this, but I find the options ones I would do anyway and compared to how much it costs to mod the Pannys or the Carvers this might be a competative deal.

I'll try to keep everyone posted here on what I do.

Passive Chappy · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Nov 2004, 05:36 am »

8thnerve wrote -

By bypassing the volume control, I noticed HUGE gains in every aspect of these little amps. It is an easy process, simply disconnect the wire coming from the rear circuit board from the small circuit board at the front of the amp near the volume pot, then disconnect the wire connected from there to the main board. Then plug in the wire from the rear circuit board directly to the main board! No soldering, they use little plastic plugs.

I'm a little confused

by the instructions above, so I'll state them as I understand them and if I'm wrong please set me straight so I don't blow myself and the Moles up

.

1. Remove the top cover. ( Got that.

)
2. Disconnect the wire coming from the rear circuit board from the small circuit board at the front of the amp near the volume pot. ( I'm confused here.

)
3. Disconnect the wire connected from there (where's there) to the main board. (More confused.

)
4. Plug the wire from the rear circuit board directly to the main board. (I think I got this part.

)

As you can see I'm totally confused

on steps 2 and 3. Any ideas where I got lost here would be most appreciated. And there maybe others out there in the same boat as me.

Thanks to everyone for their help on this

.

Passive Chappy · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 Nov 2004, 05:38 am »

Sorry GBB. I've been calling you GGB and that ain't right.

GBB · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Nov 2004, 12:11 pm »

Quote from: Passive Chappy

Sorry GBB. I've been calling you GGB and that ain't right.

Don't sweat it - you can just call me Gary.

Regarding the mods by Underwood, they do seem well thought out. The RCA jacks aren't the best in the world and the everyone complains about the binding posts. Makes me want to pull out my soldering iron and get back in there again. ':mrgreen:'

In terms of the mod to bypass the volume control. lets see if I can help.

1. Getting the top cover off is a great start.
2. There is a wire from the back of the amp that plugs into the circuit board at the front of the amp. This is the signal wire from the RCA jacks to the volume pot. You want to unplug it from the front circuit board.
3. There is another wire that goes from the front circuit board (right next to where the wire in step 2 plugs in) to the main board. There is a label on the main circuit board 'S-in" near where it plugs in. Unplug this wire from the main board.
4. Plug the wire from the RCA jack that had previously gone to the front board to the main board.

Hope this clears it up.

---Gary