[James Tanner]

Hi Folks,

Trying these "feet" out on my BDP and BDA



There appears to be a number of products on the market that replace the typical production feet on your audio gear.  Anywhere from Speakers to Source Components to Amplifiers. 

I am on a learning curve here and wanted to ask if anyone can enlighten me as to what these type of products are intended to do

James

[thunderbrick]

Simple.  They make it easier to dust between components.  A priceless solution to a WAF problem.

You're welcome. 

[Tympani]

I have spent many hours (and many more dollars) experimenting with footers, not only on my BDA-2 and BDP-2, but all other components. This is a frontier of audio that for me has reaped the most rewards (once I settled on my current components) I'm not going to delve into how they "work", I'll leave that to the manufacturers. But I'm convinced we have generally under-estimated the impact of micro-vibrations on the performance of our solid state and tube components, and until we get rid of the grunge, we aren't hearing our gear in the best light.

The Stillpoints (are those what you're showing in your pics James?) provide amazing results, especially in liberating the soundstage from the room boundaries and creating a more transparent sound. I use the Ultra-Minis under my lighter weight components (the Brystons and my 2-chassis Cary preamp) and  the Ultra SS's under my monoblocks.
I have found experimenting with position is critical, changing the result from "WOW" to "meh" depending on where the pods are placed. No real rhyme or reason as to best spots. Probably as dependent on the shelf as the component.

Trials with Finite Elemente Cerapucs and Ceraballs were not impressive. Cerpucs were initially super vivid, but ultimately sounded edgy and tiring, Ceraballs were dull with unpleasant honky midrange. Neither had good bass

Trials with damping stuff like Herbie's Tenderfeet - dull, dull, dull. Where did the magic go?

Symposium Acoustic FatPadz - lifeless, indistinct images.

Synergistic Research MiG's - gimmicky flashy 3-D sound that got tiring real fast.

In my trials, I have definitely noted a penalty to stacking the Bryston combo, more so with the Stillpoints than with the supplied rubber feet. A stacked pair with Stillpoints between them loses bass, depth and fullness. Didn't matter which was on top. My view, if you have the shelf space, give each unit it's rightful space. They have the clarity and resolution to show it!


Fun, but a bit frustrating. And given the sensitivity to positioning, there's always that sense it might sound better with a little shift!

As they say, YMMV

[Elizabeth]

My #1 favorite 'footer' are ordinary butyl rubber chemical bottle stoppers. Size 10.
I must own over 50 of the $1.25 apiece devils.

(These are plain solid rubber lumps. All sorts of odd fancy useless ones at Amazon, but not plain old fashioned ones like mine. Why??)
I get mine for a local American Science & Surplus. Pity the online store does not offer them.
With my glass shelved racks, they are mandatory. And i love them.

Then a slightly higher price level are sorbothane hemisphere domes. NOT the 'audiophile' ones which are twice the price.. Go to Amazon and look at sorbothane. Plenty of sizes for all sorts of stuff. the downside of the sorbothane domes is they get STICKY, I mean STICKY STICKY, and may cause equipment to be hard to move, cuz' those sorbo' suckers are stuck down tight. though they peel off with no ill effect.

In my box of junk audio stuff I have dozens of 'TipToes'.. but I really do not use them anymore except under really heavy stuff on the floor. Like my Furman REF20I (80+lbs) powerconditioner.

I like concrete patio slabs for amp stands.. etc too.(some tiptoes under the slabs too)

[PMAT]

If I put any footer under my gear and the "magic" disappeared I would shoot myself for even thinking that it disappeared. The diff between "meh" and "wow" better not be a freaking footer. Good luck with this James. Elizabeth and Thunderbrick are on top of this thing, without the bowl of mixed nuts.

[R. Daneel]

From a perspective of stability and structural dynamics, stabilizers can and do have significant effect on how the structure behaves and it can help bring mathematical models closer to reality. However, these are small electrical devices which produce vibrations with frequencies that are vastly different from range of effective damping propterties of the materials these accessories are made of. That is, if these electronic devices produce any vibration at all.

Designing such an accessory would be exceedingly difficult since none of the mathematical modelling techniques can be applied to this level of microvibration so rather than being a proven engineering technique, I think these manufacturers apply other techniques that make the difference between your neighbor mason and an engineer. In other words "just add some brick and lime, it will hold".

Mechanical systems like turntables or tape machines do benefit from good damping but it is because their mechanical precision is directly responsible for the precision with which data is read from the medium.

On another point, while some of these accesories may prove useful (I just haven't found any differences yet), logic dictates that if an electrical device benefits from this, then it in itself is flawed because it is unable to keep it's vibrations under control. It may arise from quality of construction and/or materials used.

If nothing so far made any sense to you, the bottom line is - a glass of wine will make a far greater difference!

Cheers!
Antun

[Russell Dawkins]

Hi Folks,
There appears to be a number of products on the market that replace the typical production feet on your audio gear.  Anywhere from Speakers to Source Components to Amplifiers. 
I am on a learning curve here and wanted to ask if anyone can enlighten me as to what these type of products are intended to do
James

Oh really!? After 35 years in the high end industry I find it implausible that you would be saying this in all sincerity, but perhaps this is mock naivete, intended as a joke, and the subtlety caught me off guard.
What they purportedly do is outlined in reams of gushing copy by every seller of these and similar devices and has been for most of the time you have been in the high end audio business, James.
Although their sonic efficacy can be disputed it is more difficult to argue with another function–that of separating the gullible from their discretionary income - just like expensive cables and 1/2" thick face plates.
I think it's mostly about perception and market positioning; aspects I would have considered you an expert at - then again, maybe this is just expert market research disguised as an innocent question!

[James Tanner]

Hi Folks,

Thanks for the input - this is the first time I have experimented with any of these kinds of products as I have always been a skeptic of these types of accessories over the many years I have been involved in serious audio. I try to do as much blind listing as I can and generally prove to myself that most are influencing us in subtle psychological ways that have more to do with expectations over reality.

I try to keep an open mind on these issues and other exotic accessories associated with audio but I have to admit I find it difficult to understand how they work or what the science is behind them

james

[wildberger]

James,  Did you mean "subtle physiological" ways or psychological ways?  If physiological...tell me more!

 I agree with your basic approach i.e. keeping an open mind.   

[James Tanner]

James,  Did you mean "subtle physiological" ways or psychological ways?  If physiological...tell me more!

 I agree with your basic approach i.e. keeping an open mind.   

Hi

Thanks - Changed it - 'psychological'

james

[James Tanner]

So what difference would stacking have vs independent shelves for each unit?

James

[James Tanner]

Hi Folks,

Here are some shots of the feet -

They have the same size screw as the type we use on our preamps and digital products.
The Black section is a type of silicon
The cone shaped bottom can be removed and the foot used with a flat bottom if wanted or levelling adjustment.







james

[Tony1]

James,

What is the brand name of those footers?

Thanks

Tony

[spinner]

 I have found that a bit of mass placed upon my cd1 has slightly tightened bass  I use a 5lb iron dumbell plate over the drive area (center)

[James Tanner]

James,

What is the brand name of those footers?

Thanks

Tony

Hi Tony

No name at this point --- Just experimenting.

James

[Tympani]

 "logic dictates that if an electrical device benefits from this, then it in itself is flawed because it is unable to keep it's vibrations under control"

Far from it, in my view. I feel that the more refined a product's audio capability (ie: resolution, soundstage, air, etc) the more it will benefit from idealizing its isolation. The "dumber" it is, the dumber it stays. It is a credit to Bryston 's digital products that they benefit from these modifications. Discounting them as a matter of fact defeats the whole goal of idealizing audio reproduction. But, if you are "content" with the sound, don't bother. You will save time, money and distraction. There are many music lovers, including professional skilled musicians, who have no desire for "high-end" audio systems because they connect directly and emotionally to the music, whether coming from a tabletop unit or something more grand. Nothing wrong with that.

[Samurai7595]

I've had my eye on the Nordost Sort Fut for my floorstanding speakers but I just can't get over the price.

These go for $2,900 for a set of 8 but includes a "laser leveling system"... 

http://www.nordost.com/products/sort-systems/sort-fut/sort-fut.php

[BobRex]

Hi Tony

No name at this point --- Just experimenting.

James

Aren't these the AM-CAN (amcanaudio.com) footers? 

[werd]

I agree with Tynpani in not stacking. The problem is the bottom piece benefits and the higher pieces don't. The weight applied to the bottom piece can be heard too. Also 3 footers are better than 4 for stability on source gear.

What the component sits on is directly related to how it sounds, improvements in prat and resolution can be had. Its a trial and error thing so not all materials or footer types may work.

[James Tanner]

Aren't these the AM-CAN (amcanaudio.com) footers?

Could be - not sure - they were loaded to me.

james