[Frans]

A while ago someone asked me why I had a subwoofer alongside Soundscape 12 speakers. At the time my answer was because it sounded better, and that Pure Direct mode sucked badly.

Turns out that this changed radically once I upgraded from a Receiver to a Processor - Pure Direct mode suddenly became a viable choice. So in essence:

• 2-channel material -  nothing but the good ship SS 12 using Pure Direct, or Direct mode with some room EQ
• Surround tracks assisted by the authoritative bass only produced by a subwoofer!

So now my answer is that I have great options for both Surround and Stereo listening situations!

[SCompRacer]

I committed two channel blasphemy; I added two subs to my two channel system. My SS8’s go from 25Hz to 20KHz +- 1.5dB, but they won't do that low bass justice in my large area. Sometimes even after the best speaker setup is found, and you have applied acoustic treatments, your system may need help. Peaks and nulls.....
   
From the GIK site....

http://www.gikacoustics.com/what-are-room-modes/

"Room modes can cause both peaks and nulls (dips) in frequency response. When two or more waves meet and are in phase with each other at a specific frequency, you will have a peak in response. When they meet and are out of phase with each other, they cancel and you end up with a dip or null in response.

Dealing with modes is accomplished by absorbing one of the boundaries to minimize the reflections off of it so there is nothing to combine or cancel. While corners are not a complete solution, they do offer the advantage of being at the end of 2 or even 3 of the room dimensions so there is a lot of benefit in that area. Sometimes there are modal issues which require treatment of the rear wall or even the ceiling over your head that treating corners would not solve."

If you play music that dips lower than what you can hear with speakers that are able to play that low, you are missing something. You can have the best gear in the world, but if your room's acoustics aren't bass friendly due to standing waves, no amp or speaker will solve it. Bass traps are fine for upper bass through treble. High quality subs crossed low with a conservative gain adjustment can fill the bottom end seamlessly.

edit: change 20Hz to 25Hz.

[Austin08]

If you play music that dips lower than what you can hear with speakers that are able to play that low, you are missing something. You can have the best gear in the world, but if your room's acoustics aren't bass friendly due to standing waves, no amp or speaker will solve it. Bass traps are fine for upper bass through treble. High quality subs crossed low with a conservative gain adjustment can fill the bottom end seamlessly.

+ agree.

[ctviggen]

I used to run my HT3s full range but supplemented with two subs distributed "randomly" (as random as I could) around the room.

[Frans]

Were the two subs identical models?

[Saturn94]

A while ago someone asked me why I had a subwoofer alongside Soundscape 12 speakers. At the time my answer was because it sounded better, and that Pure Direct mode sucked badly.

Turns out that this changed radically once I upgraded from a Receiver to a Processor - Pure Direct mode suddenly became a viable choice. So in essence:

• 2-channel material -  nothing but the good ship SS 12 using Pure Direct, or Direct mode with some room EQ
• Surround tracks assisted by the authoritative bass only produced by a subwoofer!

So now my answer is that I have great options for both Surround and Stereo listening situations!

What receiver did you have and what processor replaced it?

[Frans]

Pioneer Elite SC-39 --> Marantz AV8801

[Saturn94]

Pioneer Elite SC-39 --> Marantz AV8801

Thanks.

I'm considering replacing my current pre/pro (Anthem AVM20; 11 years old) with something with more modern features (lossless audio for movies, room correction, HDMI inputs, etc.).  There are some features exclusive to Anthem that I would like to keep, but their current AVM processor is way out of reach financially. I'm thinking of trying one of their AVRs, but I'm concerned it might be a downgrade in SQ, though reports are I may not be giving up any SQ and may gain SQ by using ARC (I like the flexibility ARC offers over Audyssey).

I have a friend who recently took delivery on a pair of SS8s and is using a Marantz AVR as a pre/pro (not sure of the model..has Audyssey XT).  I don't think he's real thrilled with it's performance and is considering either the AV8801 pre/pro or an Anthem MRX AVR.  I'll let him know about your experience.

[Frans]

I can't speak for the Anthem (but they are a highly respected brand) and also out of my reach...

The Marantz AV8801 with the Audyssey XT32 kills the Pioneer Elite SC-39 so badly in terms of SQ that I am kicking myself for not upgrading sooner. Hope this helps! 

[JonnyFive]

I can't speak for the Anthem (but they are a highly respected brand) and also out of my reach...

The Marantz AV8801 with the Audyssey XT32 kills the Pioneer Elite SC-39 so badly in terms of SQ that I am kicking myself for not upgrading sooner. Hope this helps! 

The new Anthem x10 series aren't out of your reach. I'm between the Anthem 310 at appx $1100 vs the Marantz AV8801 at $2700.  That's quite a gap in pricing, especially when you consider the AV8801 is due to be replaced this Oct/Nov.  I want to pull the trigger on *something*, but I may wait and see what the successor of the AV8801 offers. 

[coke]

Look at Accessories4less.  They are an authorized online marantz dealer.  A refurb AV8801 is $2,500 shipped

[MichiganMike]

The Yamaha CX-A5000 is another processor alternative.  I purchased a Yamaha CX-A5000 to replace my 8-year old Parasound C2 Controller.  The Yamaha has been an upgrade in features and audio performance.   

A review in Sound & Vision compared the Yamaha CX-A5000 favorably with the Marantz AV8801.  http://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-cx-a5000-surround-processor-and-mx-a5000-amplifier

I was able to purchase an open box CX-A5000 from an authorized dealer for several hundred dollars less than the Marantz.  The lower price together with the reported cooler operation motivated my purchase of the Yamaha.

[Frans]

When I heard the Yamaha CX-A5000 next to the Marantz AV8801 they were the same for movies, but the Marantz sounded silky smooth with music where the Yamaha was a bit shrill. That did it for me. Marantz FTW. It's funny that the reviewer in the S&V article has M&K S-150 speakers, I had those for nearly a decade before the Salks.

[MichiganMike]

When I heard the Yamaha CX-A5000 next to the Marantz AV8801 they were the same for movies, but the Marantz sounded silky smooth with music where the Yamaha was a bit shrill.

My Yamaha CX-A5000 is paired with Parasound Halo A21 and A51 amps and Von Schweikert speakers in a 7.2 system.  This combination sounds very natural to my ears with music as well as home theater.  I would not describe it as shrill or fatiguing.  YMMV.

My 2 channel system includes a McIntosh C48 preamp paired with McIntosh MC501 amps and Salk SoundScape 10 speakers.  Not surprisingly, this is a step-up for critical listening to music.

[Austin08]

My 2 channel system includes a McIntosh C48 preamp paired with McIntosh MC501 amps and Salk SoundScape 10 speakers.  Not surprisingly, this is a step-up for critical listening to music.

Agree, no surround processors (Classe, Integra Research, Proceed, Krell, Marantz.... I have tried that do equally good in stereo. Maybe the newer model from those brand will do a better job. But IMO, stereo preamp is still the king in the house.o