[Jon L]

Jon L,

Thanks, I understoood about needing a UPS when the power goes out, but like you said most don't last very long and not sure how much damage is done when the power goes out.  Isn't that kinda like shutting things off?

Luckily for me most instances of power outages haven't been at my peak listening times (7pm to 11pm) Don't know how it works in other areas, but in mine when the power company is restoring power it takes quite a while before the power is anywhere close to 120V and the power usually ...

If you are lucky, nothing bad will happen when power goes off.  But often, even if power goes out simultaneously, your equipment may not go off simultaneously.  For example, if I switch off my tube amp and CDP at same time, the amp takes longer to discharge power and I can hear the CDP making all kinds of noises as it turns off, some loud pops and clicks.

Ditto for my electronic x-over, which takes forever to actually discharge power.  A bad combo of this, and you could damage the next component down or speakers, especially if volume was high when power went out.

There's also the possibility, depending on why the power is out, that a big surge could happen just before the power cuts off, which could be a problem if you are not protected.  Unfortunatley, most off-shelf small "surge protectors" most power conditioners use sound bad, and I have mine bypassed at the moment, but I AM taking my chances...

[Johncan]

I have a lot of hash coming through my AC lines. What size Oneac (or similar product) power conditioner do I need for a B&K ST-140 amp? I have no idea how many watts it uses. Also, how many watts (and/or amps) does the typical turntable use?

I assume I would want a Oneac for the analog stuff and one for the digital stuff.

I have calculated the amps used by my other equipment using the following formula:
watts/volts = amps

CD Player = .3 A
DAC = .1 A
Preamp = .3 A
Phono tube preamp = .3 A
Cassette deck = .2 A
8-track player = .6 A

Please let me know if these appear to way off and don't laugh that I have an 8-track player

Thanks!

John

[ekovalsky]

Eric,

Do you know pricing on the units?

I checked the Furman website and they don't list any prices.

Are you thinking of replacing the 3.5 Sig?

George

Retail prices on the IT-1220 and AR-1220 are $1579 and $1321, respectively.  Most "pro" stores give a 25-30% discount for new merchandise. The audiophile version of the IT-1220, the IT-Reference, retails for a hefty $3250.  It does not feature voltage stabilization.

I have no immediate plans on replacing the BPT 3.5 Signature, although I would like to try some other units, including the Burmester and Accuphase and also the Exactpower EP/SP combo.  I doubt the Furman or Equi=Tech units would surpass the BPT since they basically do the same thing.

The PS regenerators are great in theory and were at least as good as the BPT in my system.  But I was turned off by continued equipment failure and excessive heat production.  One of the three P1000's I ran so hot, even when put in standby mode, that I felt it a fire hazard and unplugged it whenever I left the house!  The other two were better but still made my listening room too toasty here in Arizona.

Knowing how audio power supplies work, actual line voltage shouldn't be critical to performance unless there are very large dips.  Clipped AC waveforms and non-zero ground, both of which are very common, and of course noise are the chief culprits.

[doug s.]

I have a lot of hash coming through my AC lines. What size Oneac (or similar product) power conditioner do I need for a B&K ST-140 amp? I have no idea how many watts it uses. Also, how many watts (and/or amps) does the typical turntable use?

I assume I would want a Oneac for the analog stuff and one for the digital stuff.

I have calculated the amps used by my other equipment using the following formula:
watts/volts = amps

CD Player = .3 A
DAC = .1 A
Preamp = .3 A
Phono tube preamp = .3 A
Casse ...

i'd recommend at least 15a for an amp, tho ya may be ok w/less for your specific application.  these big transformers are heavy, and usually noisy; an adjacent room/closet, or a sound-insulated box may be worthwhile.

re: separating these for digital and analog, i'd go one step further, since ya have separate dac & transport - use one isolation transformer for each, & a third for the analog stuff.   1a should be more than enuff for a turntable.  

doug s.

[Lost81]

Are Power Conditioners and filters a waste of time if your mains do not have ground?

Thanks!


-Lost81

[JoshK]

do you mean your outlets are two prong, or you really don't have grounds wired in your walls?  Two prong outlets can be replaced with regular three prong outlets very simply.

[Carlman]

Replacing a 2-prong outlet with a 3-prong would still be ungrounded at the outlet..... Essentially it'd be like using a 3 to 2-prong adapter.

The power conditioning would still do its job but it wouldn't be grounded.  I'm pretty sure the ground is for safety and has little or no sonic benefit.  Also, I've never seen a power conditioner that depended on a ground for anything other than a safety feature.

At least you don't have to worry about ground loops!

[satfrat]

Replacing a 2-prong outlet with a 3-prong would still be ungrounded at the outlet..... Essentially it'd be like using a 3 to 2-prong adapter.

The power conditioning would still do its job but it wouldn't be grounded.  I'm pretty sure the ground is for safety and has little or no sonic benefit.  Also, I've never seen a power conditioner that depended on a ground for anything other than a safety feature.

At least you don't have to worry about ground loops!

                     I think you might be wrong on this one Carl. After all, a balanced power conditioner uses common node rejection which is isolating any noise that might be riding on the ground connection. Now how can that effectively work if there is no ground to begin with? I asked Chris Hoff of BPT this same question before I bought ny unit as my old house only has 2 prong(no ground) outlets. He told me a ground was a neccesity for his conditioners to work properly for sure. So I disconnected the attic 20amp circuit and ran a dedicated line to my system that included a ground wire that's connected to my copper baseboard heating pipes. My system is a testiment that I got it right. Regards, Robin

[Jay S]

BPTs have a great rep.  I'm happy with my Blue Circle Music Ring, which I have supplemented with a couple of BC Noisehounds and a Bybee built into the power cord of the Music Ring.  Balanced power has made a big improvement in my system.  Once big plus of the Music Ring is that you can get it in 220v -- BPT (at the time at least) was 110v only.  

If you want to try balanced power for less, look into the Transcendent Audio balanced power supply.  It is $399.

While it hasn't been mentioned in a long time, a DeZorel made a nice improvement in a friend's system.  Even their smallest models have near unlimited power handling.

[bubba966]

BPT (at the time at least) was 110v only.

It probably doesn't matter, but BPT can do a 100v version for Japanese gear that's being run off of 120v. Or at least they could when I last inquired about it.

Buuuuut it'd be a custom order as they have to have the trannies custom wound for that application.

Someday when I'm not broke I'll have to have one like that made for my Japanese gear....

[zybar]

Levi,

I am going to try the AVS 2000 one more time.  It will feed my BPT 3.5 Sig in the main system.

Will post the results (should have the unit at the end of this week).

George

[Levi]

Levi,

I am going to try the AVS 2000 one more time.  It will feed my BPT 3.5 Sig in the main system.

Will post the results (should have the unit at the end of this week).

George

I am interested to know the results.  I hope it makes a HUGE difference in your system as it did on mine.

Thanks George.

[ekovalsky]

Levi,

I am going to try the AVS 2000 one more time.  It will feed my BPT 3.5 Sig in the main system.

Will post the results (should have the unit at the end of this week).

George

I'm curious about your impressions too.  I have pretty much convinced myself that relatively small voltage fluctuations aren't too important.  But if the AVS2000 improves the BPT without killing the dynamics I will have to try one.

[satfrat]

I've always thought that unless you had a REAL serious power flucuation problem in your area, the BPT would handle any minor flucuations. I also have to wonder how much a voltage regulator in front of a 2400 watt 20a BPT unit would limit and chock the power. I would at least want a voltage regulator to match the BPT and the ones I've seen are usually only a 1000watts or 15a capacity. I only know of 1 person that uses a variac in front of his 1000w BPT and he burns out loudspeakers on an average of 3-5 months. I'm not saying that his use of a variac is the problem,,, only that he uses one. Fortunately I have no need for one or the desire to change my voiltage to an optimum 117v (my friend's optimum that is) I find 121v to suit me just fine. Still, I'll be wanting to hear more about your finding George. If it's one thing I do do,,, it's keep an open mind.   Regards, Robin

[Levi]

I've always thought that unless you had a REAL serious power flucuation problem in your area, the BPT would handle any minor flucuations. I also have to wonder how much a voltage regulator in front of a 2400 watt 20a BPT unit would limit and chock the power. I would at least want a voltage regulator to match the BPT and the ones I've seen are usually only a 1000watts or 15a capacity. I only know of 1 person that uses a variac in front of his 1000w BPT and he burns out loudspeakers on an average of 3-5 month ...

This is straight from Widescreen review Reviewed in Issue 53 by Doug Blackburn...

The reviewer connected the following to the AVS2000 and was astound by the results, "VansEvers “The Unlimiter” for amplifiers and powered subwoofers, a VansEvers Model 85 A/V conditioner for source components, a VansEvers RB-5 600 watt balanced AC conditioner that powered the Model 85, a pair of Richard Gray’s Power Company model 400S power enhancers, and a pair of Quantum Life Symphony power enhancers. Video display devices were connected to a VansEvers “clean line jr.—Video” line conditioner that was powered by the RB-5 balanced power conditioner."


Happy reading-Levi

[zybar]

Levi,

If I bought my gear based on reviews my systems wouldn't sound anywhere as good as it currently does.  

It great that Doug wrote that, but that wasn't what I heard the first time around.

Let's see what happens this time.

Worst case, I might just keep it and use it in the living room system.

George

[satfrat]

This is straight from Widescreen review Reviewed in Issue 53 by Doug Blackburn...

The reviewer connected the following to the AVS2000 and was astound by the results, "VansEvers “The Unlimiter” for amplifiers and powered subwoofers, a VansEvers Model 85 A/V conditioner for source components, a VansEvers RB-5 600 watt balanced AC conditioner that powered the Model 85, a pair of Richard Gray’s Power Company model 400S power enhancers, ...

                                                                                                             Levi, if I could draw your attention to a review from Chip Stern last year at http://www.stereophile.com/accessoryreviews/864/index1.html . Chip suggests that while this regulator works fine on front end components, there was constriction concerns when connecting power amps. Now if THIS was a concern, what will happen when you connect a BPT 2.5 with all 10 outlets being used in a 6.1 home theater system as mine is?  Knowing that George has a simular situation with his BP3.5 Sig, my interests in his insights are peaked. Regards, Robin

[zybar]

Robin,

This review is more in line with what I heard the first time around.  At the time, I had my Kora Cosmos References, not my 201's.  The Kora amps had 14 tubes in each, were Class A, and put out 100 watts of triode power.  I also had a tube preamp (Sonic Frontiers SFL-2).

With my current configuration, maybe the AVS 2000 won't compress anything?

Now if I can just get the guy I am buying it from to give me a shipping quote....

George

[Levi]

Levi, if I could draw your attention to a review from Chip Stern last year at http://www.stereophile.com/accessoryreviews/864/index1.html . Chip suggests that while this regulator works fine on front end components, there was constriction concerns when connecting power amps. Now if THIS was a concern, what will happen when you connect a BPT 2.5 with all 10 outlets being used in a 6.1 home theater system as mine is?  Knowing that George has a simular situation with his BP3.5 Sig, my interests in his insights are peaked. Regards, Robin

Hi Robin,
That was my concern in the beginning.  According to Monster, the AVS2000 is rated at 3,000watts peak total output.  My amp does not draw more than 1,800watts or 15A so the AVS2000 did not choke my system.  

The AVS2000 may not be for everyone specially if you draw over 1440watts RMS or over 15A.  Likewise, if you do have a system that draw over 1440watts RMS, you will notice that in your electric bills  

Levi

[PhilNYC]

That was my concern in the beginning.  According to Monster, the AVS2000 is rated at 3,000watts peak total output.  My amp does not draw more than 1,800watts or 15A so the AVS2000 did not choke my system.  

Levi, it's not always a matter of whether your system draws too much power or not compared to the capacity of the conditioner.  The way it was explained to me, the issue is that when you put a big transformer in the AC path, you are bound to lose some speed.  That the AVS2000 has a "50lb transformer" that adjusts to different windings on the fly certainly makes its impact on dynamics a concern.  The hope is that the benefits outweigh the negatives; if your power is consistently very low (eg. 110v or less), the AVS2000's ability to provide 120v will improve the performance/peaks of your system more than the transformer takes away.