[Freo-1]

Really?? Freo, would you mind citing the evidence supporting the most likelihood of ATCs being used to master classical? TIA.


cheers,

AJ

 Professional jealousy, perhaps??       (Just kidding). 




Here a list for you:


http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/client-list/studios-soundstages/




I dare say no one else comes in anywhere near a close second.







 

[Quiet Earth]

I dare say those ATC speakers don't come anywhere near the budget posted by rotarius. Why even bring them up?

A quick question for you guys. Why do you feel the need to monitor in the near field when the monitoring has already been done for you? Wouldn't you rather just sit back and enjoy the recording?

[Freo-1]

I dare say those ATC speakers don't come anywhere near the budget posted by rotarius. Why even bring them up?

A quick question for you guys. Why do you feel the need to monitor in the near field when the monitoring has already been done for you? Wouldn't you rather just sit back and enjoy the recording?

Regarding you first question: Not exactly.  These were recently available for 900.00.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122797.0



Regarding your second question:  I think that is his intent. 

[Kenneth Patchen]

Can't speak to the ATCs but would love to hear them. However, I would second the Fritz suggestion. Also, used Von Schwiekert VR-1s are in your price range, similar to Fritz in sound as I recall, but perhaps more dynamic. The VR-1s can run a bit bright and so, as always, it depends on amp compatibility. They can play very well with classical music. 

I haven't heard Dennis Miller's  Philharmonitors but intend to do so. Is it jumping the shark to assume that a speaker designer who is also an active classical musician would voice his speakers in such a way as to best reproduce classical recordings?

[rajacat]

  If you don't mind a little DIY, how about these Jeff Bagby designed kits? http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-series-kits/fusion12-kit.html.

These would be rather large bookshelf speakers but I doubt that you could find better sound quality for the price. You also could tweak the kits a bit using boutique parts to up the SQ refinement. These SEOS waveguide speakers have huge dynamics which go well with the demands of a symphony orchestra. Also waveguide speakers generally have a very wide sweet spot when set up properly.








http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-series-kits/fusion12-kit.html

[Quiet Earth]

Regarding you first question: Not exactly.  These were recently available for 900.00.

I stand corrected.

[Russell Dawkins]

I am looking at NHT classic Three for a nearfield set-up.  These had great reviews a while back but don't know how they would do with orchestral music.  Anyone here use these or have heard them?  I would like your opinion.  Another bookshelf (under $1K) perhaps?  I am not looking for hyper detail, just clean grain free mids and lower treble.  I posted this on audiogon as well but this may be a more appropriate forum.

I've seen the JBL Studio 530s compared to the NHT Classic Threes and the 530s were preferred, FWIW. They're currently around $480 a pair.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122554.0

[Kenneth Patchen]

  
Great suggestion Rajacat! I've been wondering about the Bagby waveguide speaker kit. Does anyone have any actual experience using these SEOS waveguide speakers primarily for classical music?

[rajacat]

 
Great suggestion Rajacat! I've been wondering about the Bagby waveguide speaker kit. Does anyone have any actual experience using these SEOS waveguide speakers primarily for classical music?

In another month I'll have some first hand experience. I have all the parts to assemble some SEOS based speakers although they won't be designed by Bagby. They won't be bookshelves either but large,  floorstanders using the SEOS 18s', Acoustic Elegance TD15Ms', BA750 and active crossovers.
Since the whole SEOS project was started over on the AVS forum, it was primarily focused on the needs of home theater enthusiasts. However, most who have heard the speakers are blown away by their dynamics and sound quality. They attracted my interest because of all the attention Geddes speaker have received on AC. I'm primarily into music and I wanted some speakers that would not only sound great with small scale music but with full size symphony orchestras.
Here's a link to the monster SEOS thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291022/hey-guys-we-need-a-little-rallying-here

...Roy

[AJinFLA]

Here a list for you:
http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/client-list/studios-soundstages/

Right. I saw that...and 1/2 of those links don't say anything about recording classical (some do). Most I've never even heard of.
There is absolutely zero data to indicate they are remotely close to being used by most classical recording studios.

I dare say no one else comes in anywhere near a close second.

What you linked does not support that claim whatsoever. I strongly doubt they are anywhere near JBL, Genelec, etc. in numbers of studios recording classical.

cheers,

AJ

[Russell Dawkins]

Actually I don't think you'll find JBL or Genelec used much in serious mastering rooms. Genelec seems to have fallen somewhat out of favor in general and was/is used mainly in  mixing, not mastering. JBL has gone through a lengthy period where it also was popular in mixing, but seldom in mastering - even in North America.
Things have been changing at JBL of late, and if I were in the market for a mastering grade speaker and could afford 20 grand, which I can't, I'd be all over these new JBL M2s:
http://jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/m2-series/m2-master-reference-monitor#.Uu7M6Paf5iU
Frank Filipetti is a seasoned and respected engineer - and a horn hater - and he bought a pair:
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/newbay/mix_201308/index.php?startid=58#/62
I bet they'd make mincemeat out of many an "audiophile" 20 grand amp/speaker combination!
I would say the cheapest near-mastering grade speaker available is the Neumann KH 120 and it's $1500 - although it includes bi-amplification.

[JLM]

Neumann KH120, yes but not at this budget.

With a sub in hand I'll revise my recommendations to Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1s (if you have 100 watts or more available or Adam 3AS (active design, wide sweet spot, room filling). 

Keep in mind that actives tend to be dry/very detailed.

[AJinFLA]

Actually I don't think you'll find JBL or Genelec used much in serious mastering rooms.

Any idea who's most popular? I doubt there is any statistic for popularity in "classical studios" (Freo's "data" was, umm, a bit lacking ), but surprise me Russell.

Things have been changing at JBL of late, and if I were in the market for a mastering grade speaker and could afford 20 grand, which I can't, I'd be all over these new JBL M2s:
http://jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/m2-series/m2-master-reference-monitor#.Uu7M6Paf5iU

Heard those at RMAF. Quite nice, though I think they could have been setup a bit better. IMHO.

cheers,

AJ

[Freo-1]

The list of studios that use ATC is substantial.  AJ has presented no meaningful data to back up his opinions.      Kindly produce some data to back up your assertions.


BTW, found an interesting blog on mastering speakers. 

http://mastering-media.blogspot.com/2008/05/diy-mastering-part-3-mastering-speakers.html

[AJinFLA]

Kindly produce some data to back up your assertions.

Why not get the speakers that were more than likely used to master your favorite classical recording

That's your goal post. Shift all you want, but it's still yours. 

[Freo-1]

That's your goal post. Shift all you want, but it's still yours. 

 All you have done so fa  is whinge about other postings.   
 
A rather detailed list was provided as to all the studios that employ ATC as monitors.  To be sure, there are other fine quality speakers used in studios as well.  A simple google search will vouch for this.  Check out this link on the useability of the ATC SCM 25A (It IS expensive)

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may13/articles/atc-scm25a.htm
 
The larger point is that studio monitors are designed to be flat, accurate, and revealing. (As described in the previous link.).  The take away is that the recording (be it classical or any other type of music) needs to employ the same basic traits to successfully play back classical music. 
 

[mg8]

I will be receiving a new model from the Fritz Speaker design stable this week.  It is a higher performance version of the Carbon 7.  The "SE" design has a updated Scan speak 7" carbon woofer mated with an Illuminator soft dome aircirc tweeter, over your target but the other speaker using these drivers is a Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution ($20K).  So, They are an extremely good bargain comparatively.  My recent research prior to choosing the Fritz identified the following list that are extremely good for the cost:

1. Warfdale 10.1 $350 - believed to be the best at <$500.00
2. Pioneer SP-BS41-LR $129 - $89 after rebate (newegg.com) I listened to them as a comparison with a couple of more expensive stand mounts and bought them. Shockingly good
3. Pioneer SP-BS21-LR $129 Shockingly good

As a couple of folks have commented, symphony concert music needs the lower couple of octaves to give the force and ambience of a concert hall.  The above speakers will need a subwoofer to achieve this performance.  Vocal, Acoustic, Jazz, and chamber music are excellent with the small two-way speakers.  I also had a B&W 805 diamond with a REL 328 sub a couple of years ago.  This setup could do full-scale symphony reproduction.

[Quiet Earth]

Freo let's be honest. It is unlikely that many of those award-winning studios are using the $900 a pair ATCs that you linked earlier. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the ATC brand, but I think you are kind of stretching things a little bit in this thread. Someone is looking for a decent stand mounted speaker for a grand or under. There surely are a lot of other options besides those used ATCs that you linked, don't you think? (And the ones that you are really referring to are surely off the list.)

Not to be a dead horse again, but I personally believe that the average home enthusiast does not need a "mastering" grade speaker to enjoy already mastered music in his home. However, since we are in the classical music circle and not the enclosures circle, I have to ask again. What do you all think? Is it really necessary to listen nearfield to a perfectly flat, no-personality style of critical-listening monitor to enjoy the already produced classical music in your home?

And if so, are you exhausted when the performance is over or are you refreshed? It sounds like more work than fun to me but I am actually open to the idea of trying it. Honest, I am. For classical music, that is.

(Sorry for hijacking the thread rotarius)

[AJinFLA]

Not to be a dead horse again, but I personally believe that the average home enthusiast does not need a "mastering" grade speaker to enjoy already mastered music in his home.

Bingo. As Toole (and others) showed, the needs of the home listener/environment is not the same as the recording studio.
Or else those sort of speakers would dominate the (home) audio enthusiast market. They don't.
Just pick whatever you personally prefer...just like Freo did...minus the need for popularity and other specious "justification" to "support" ones choice.

cheers

p.s. ouch for all the Broncos fans 

[jimdgoulding]

I will be receiving a new model from the Fritz Speaker design stable this week.  It is a higher performance version of the Carbon 7.  The "SE" design has a updated Scan speak 7" carbon woofer mated with an Illuminator soft dome aircirc tweeter, over your target but the other speaker using these drivers is a Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution ($20K).  So, They are an extremely good bargain comparatively.  My recent research prior to choosing the Fritz identified the following list that are extremely good for the cost:

1. Warfdale 10.1 $350 - believed to be the best at <$500.00
2. Pioneer SP-BS41-LR $129 - $89 after rebate (newegg.com) I listened to them as a comparison with a couple of more expensive stand mounts and bought them. Shockingly good
3. Pioneer SP-BS21-LR $129 Shockingly good

As a couple of folks have commented, symphony concert music needs the lower couple of octaves to give the force and ambience of a concert hall.  The above speakers will need a subwoofer to achieve this performance.  Vocal, Acoustic, Jazz, and chamber music are excellent with the small two-way speakers.  I also had a B&W 805 diamond with a REL 328 sub a couple of years ago.  This setup could do full-scale symphony reproduction.

Hello.  I admire your choice of speakers and wish to make you an offer.  Once you receive, set up and listen to your speakers for a couple weeks, I'll make a set of removable wool felt surrounds for your high frequency drivers for you to evaluate at no cost with the condition that you report back to the forum your experience with their use.  I'm not talking generic synthetic felt circles or dots that can be purchased from a variety of sources.  What I send you will extend out to the edges of your cabinets, or anyone's as I custom fit, and made of natural wool.  I must add, and have til I'm blue in the face, for purposes of your evaluation and listening in general that you get your speakers out into the room somewhat and away from room boundaries which you and anyone should do in any case so your recordings are less compromised by near wall reflections.  That only leaves reflection off your speaker cabinets to deal with and that's what we're gonna deal with.  This is my in-need-of-updating website: www.diffractionbegone.com.

Reply to me with any questions you may have in a PM or in this forum as you may prefer.  I will need some measurements from you and your address.  I won't tell you what to look for with their use.  That's a surprise.  Or not.  Cheers.