[apollophono]

Sorry for the long post and I did forget to mention that musicians
are just the rest of us.  They have their good and bad sides and
some are more vocal, opinionated than others.  They deserve a
right to express their opinions whether we like it or not.

Dixie Chicks come to mind.  I didn't agree with their comments,
but they have a right to express them.  I have the right to buy
or not buy according to my beliefs as well.  If you don't like what
Pat Metheny said, then don't buy his stuff.  Personally I try to
disconnect the person from their art (music, movies, etc.). 
You may not choose to do so.  You decide.   

[FullRangeMan]

Some years ago I was biased against the pop orchestra of Andre Rieu, then I realized that the symphonic of my town was much worse than the huge orchestra of Andre(but very much worse).
The orchestra of Andre being popular or lightweight made people happy and bring new fans to classical music, and so does Kenny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNtXnHNZJSw
After reading this lengthy statement from Pat about Kenny on that link Iam surprised how Pat cares about the musical quality of Kenny.
I wonder why Kenny are important on Pat life??

[Diamond Dog]

... musicians are just the rest of us.  They have their good and bad sides and
some are more vocal, opinionated than others.  They deserve a
right to express their opinions whether we like it or not.
... Personally I try to disconnect the person from their art (music, movies, etc.). 
You may not choose to do so.  You decide.   

Sure musicians have a right to express their opinions like any other citizen in a society where free speech is valued. That doesn't mean they should be put on a pedestal because they play guitar with technical proficiency or whatever. They are still responsible for what comes out of their yaps - that comes with the right to speak freely. Using your example of the Dixie Chicks, Natalie Maines put her opinions forward and then they took a beating for it ( right or wrong but this is not the place to get into that ) from people who disagreed with them. Fair enough.  Here you have Pat Methany getting all worked up about another musician and launching into a big, long diatribe about his technique deficiencies and his tonal flaws and his poor taste and his lack of respect for Satchmo ( Really? ) and all manner of self-righteous whining and whoopdie-do. As I said, catty but not unusual behavior from the genus. Smile and wave, shrug and turn away wondering about when it was that Kenny G ran over Methany's dog or whatever got him all exercised...

Then he starts crossing the line.

You don't get to threaten people with physical harm because you don't like what comes out of their saxophone. "Wrap a guitar around his head" ? It's adorable when musicians get all fighty like that... More likely they'd have a little slap-fight, a little hair-pulling and then go smoke a fatty together and snicker about what a worthless POS and insult to "Jazz" that Wynton Marsalis is....
Oh, and while Methany was accused of being a racist earlier, I don't know about that. I do know however that when you express blanket statements about an entire nationality based on the actions of a very small sampling of its people, well that's sorta the definition of bigotry, innit?

Pat Methany - the Ted Nugent of jazz. Nice. There's something to aspire to.
Shut up and play your guitar. You douche.

D.D.

[dflee]

Agree completely with DD on this but will add as a half assed musician the profession is very territorial. I have had more flack and crap thrown at me by other musicians than the general public. Musicians seem to see it as a form of competition on their talents and just want to remove it or diss it to justify their ability. It is a shame but happens every day. Matheny was in the wrong place at the wrong time to spout his territory infringement feeling.
Again as DD stated SHUT UP AND PLAY YOUR GUITAR. You may or may not like jazz but that does not alleviate the fact that he is very talented. But so is Kenny G tho I listen to neither any more.

Don

[kevin360]

Since it's clear that the link I posted hasn't been thoroughly read, let me point out that Metheny's animus has nothing to do with Kenny's playing. It all centered around an action performed by Mr. G: he crossed a line. Pat is not putting himself on a pedestal; he's putting Louis Armstrong on a pedestal. I agree with Pat about the sanctity of Satchmo's recordings. Kenny G overdubbed his playing on top of 'What a Wonderful World' - surprise, an instant hit! That is what so irritated Pat Metheny that he now has a personal vendetta against Kenny G. It is true that Metheny has no respect for Kenny's abilities, but he would forever have remained mute on that topic had it not been for the aforementioned transgression.

The excerpt was from a Polish program about jazz aimed at kids. Pat's word choice emulated the speech of his target audience and it reflected the general attitude most kids have towards that flavor of music. His slag of the Polish people 'in general' was commenting that the Polish didn't use to behave like crass Americans. He was surprised that the excerpt had been posted on the Internet - out of context and as the worst kind of 'troll'.

Musician's are people, just like the rest of us. Hell, I was once an aspiring musician. Sometimes, things get bitter. I actually agree with Pat's reason. I also understand how he feels, because I was once engaged in a public battle of words that got ugly. It's not fun. I seriously doubt Pat enjoys it either, but feels it necessary. Some things are sacrosanct.

[BobM]

Kenny G has a large audience. He is very successful. Does he call his music "jazz" - probably not. It's the record stores and producers that label these things.

OK, so Metheny doesn't have a high regard for what Kenny does. Yeah, he probably should have kept his mouth shut. He likely doesn't think much of Iggy Pop either, but you don't see those comments being made. Hey, we've all had bad days and said things we should have kept to ourselves. Being in the public spotlight, and especially in an interview, he probably should have thought more about what he was saying and reigned in his emothions on the issue. Water under the bridge (an issue like this from 2001 being resurrected ... come on guys).

However, if you go back to the very first Rippingtons album (Moonlighting) you might be surprised to see that Kenny was their saxophonist, and he did a really good job on that. So I guess he probably can play when he wants to, but his audience (and producer) wants what they want and he gives it to them, laughing all the way to the bank.

[jimdgoulding]

Hate to break it to Mr. Methany, but he isn't exactly my idea of great jazz either.  At least he has his moments- Kenny is just Muzak. 
Very successful Muzak... from Wikipedia
" Kenny G is the biggest-selling instrumental musician of the modern era and one of the best-selling artists of all time, with global sales totaling more than 75 million records.[2] "

Musak.  That's good.  Come to think of it, I believe I've heard something by him playing on an elevator. 

[orientalexpress]

Mr.Metheny  forgot how many more jazz fans kenny g bring in?I cant remember any jazz music play in the mainstream radio or MTV in the 80 maybe Herbie Hancock.I'm discover Jazz because i want to hear where Kenny g music come from.I play guitar  since high school,i can't remenber any song Mr.methany wrote or play on the radio.

[galyons]

i can't remenber any song Mr.methany wrote or play on the radio.

Historically jazz musicians got zero play time on commercial radio.  Jazz was/is not considered commercial music.  Kenny G is highly successful commercially.  He got play time on commercial radio...pretty much proves the point.  Commercial success has virtually nothing to do with talent or musicianship, it is primarily due to the recording industry's politics, marketability,  "flavor of the day" and hype.

Cheers,
Geary

[bladesmith]

Maybe there should be a poll.

P. Matheny vs. Kenny G. vs I like neither.

[simoon]

Since it's clear that the link I posted hasn't been thoroughly read, let me point out that Metheny's animus has nothing to do with Kenny's playing. It all centered around an action performed by Mr. G: he crossed a line. Pat is not putting himself on a pedestal; he's putting Louis Armstrong on a pedestal. I agree with Pat about the sanctity of Satchmo's recordings. Kenny G overdubbed his playing on top of 'What a Wonderful World' - surprise, an instant hit! That is what so irritated Pat Metheny that he now has a personal vendetta against Kenny G. It is true that Metheny has no respect for Kenny's abilities, but he would forever have remained mute on that topic had it not been for the aforementioned transgression.

Nicely said. Too bad those that already have their minds made up that Metheny is an arrogant prick won't read the entire article.

Some of the points Metheny makes in the article are objective statements about Kenny G's technique and skill on his instrument, they are not really open to argument. If someone has poor intonation, rhythmic problems, poor harmonic vocabulary, those things can be objectively evaluated. They are not a matter of taste.

Even if one is not a fan of Metheny, his technique is not in dispute. I myself am pretty lukewarm on Metheny, because when it comes to fusion, I like more fiery, intense styles (Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, Brand X, Spaced Out, etc).

But the major aspect of Metheny's criticism of Kenny G is his overdub of his playing over Armstrong (musical necrophilia, as he calls it), one of the undisputed masters of the art.

It's no different than if Keanu Reaves had himself, through the use of technology, inserted in place of John Gielgud (as George, Duke of Clarence) into Laurence Olivier's film, Richard III so could play opposite Olivier in Shakespeare.

Would anyone call, say, Kenneth Branagh (a great Shakespearean actor) arrogant for pointing out the problems with what Reaves did?



 

[CSI]

Oof. I wasn't aware until now that Kenny G. overdubbed himself onto Louis Armstrong tracks. If this isn't the musical equivalent of painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa I don't know what is. Everyone has a perfect right to prefer whatever kind of music they like (including rap and Lawrence Welk) but this act of near sacrilege is surely proof that Mr. G. is a hopeless hack, best selling albums or not.

[Diamond Dog]

Since it's clear that the link I posted hasn't been thoroughly read, let me point out that Metheny's animus has nothing to do with Kenny's playing.

Speaking for myself, I did indeed read the entire Metheny comment you linked to. More than once. He spends the first seven paragraphs downgrading the playing of Kenny G before he even gets to the Satchmo thing. Apparently Kenny G's playing is something Metheny has reflected on ( and then expounded on ) at some considerable length.
So....no.  And I'm not the only one to notice this:

Some of the points Metheny makes in the article are objective statements about Kenny G's technique and skill on his instrument, they are not really open to argument.

So on to the disrespecting of the late Louis Armstrong... If having some schmuck noodling over what was likely not your greatest musical moment ( just the most widely-known ) is all it takes to topple the legacy of one of the titans of jazz, well, that's really not much of a legacy, is it? I figure if Satchmo's memory was really so gravely wounded by the Kenny G thing, then Zombie Satchmo would've risen up by now to settle the score like Joan Crawford did in that Blue Oyster Cult song...but I see the world differently from a lot of people.
As to the tastefulness of some of what Kenny G has done, that is for individuals to judge for themselves and I don't recall seeing the executive order appointing Pat Metheny as the official taste-maker to the nations. To each their own. And no-one gets to threaten to go all El Kabong on you if they don't like what you like. 'Cuz that's douchey :

"Everything I said here is exactly the same as what I would say to Gorelick if I ever saw him in person. and if I ever DO see him anywhere, at any function - he WILL get a piece of my mind and (maybe a guitar wrapped around his head.)"

See?  I did so read it. And it's douchey...

" the only other thing that surprised me in the aftermath of the release of this little interview is that ANYONE would be even a little bit surprised that i would say such a thing, given the reality of mr. gs music. this makes me want to go practice about 10 times harder, because that suggests to me that i am not getting my own musical message across clearly enough..."

...and sadly juvenile. Maybe he should go outside and get some air instead. But at least while he's doing all that practicing, he won't be posting regrettable rants on the internet. Yay.
In the immortal words of Will Rodgers: " Never miss a good opportunity to shut up."
...and play your guitar.

D.D.

[S Clark]

...But the major aspect of Metheny's criticism of Kenny G is his overdub of his playing over Armstrong (musical necrophilia, as he calls it), one of the undisputed masters of the art.

It's no different than if Keanu Reaves had himself, through the use of technology, inserted in place of John Gielgud (as George, Duke of Clarence) into Laurence Olivier's film, Richard III so could play opposite Olivier in Shakespeare.

Would anyone call, say, Kenneth Branagh (a great Shakespearean actor) arrogant for pointing out the problems with what Reaves did?

Uhhh, perhaps the Keanu Reeves example is not the best... considering that the great Kenneth Branagh cast and played opposite him in "Much Adu About Nothing" 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7eOwKN3Goo

 Whatever Methany thinks about G, and regardless how correct he may be, he comes off badly when he makes his negative opinions of another musician public.

[dB Cooper]

The venom is what is out of place from a peer. I have utmost respect for Armstrong and don't want to pollute my ears with the KG "remix", but you can just say, "I dont especially like his playing and I thought his overdubbing on Satchmo was in bad taste" and leave it at that.

I didn't know that KG had played as a sideman in a band that opened for Metheny.

[charmerci]

So I'm curious to know what your opinion would be D.D. if Celine Dion did an album of David Bowie in her own inimitable style and it soared to the top of the charts and vastly outsold Bowie and no one said anything bad about it?

[Andre2]

I guess I will not buy the new release from Pat Matheny.  What is it to him on what another musician does or does not do?  Is he the Imperator of the Music World to decide what is "allowed" or "what is not allowed"???

And, yes, I read the link above in its entirety.

[Diamond Dog]

So I'm curious to know what your opinion would be D.D. if Celine Dion did an album of David Bowie in her own inimitable style and it soared to the top of the charts and vastly outsold Bowie and no one said anything bad about it?

Before I get into that, there's this...I was listening to a CBC radio program - sorry, programme (Queen's English and all that  ) last weekend where they frequently get into some fascinating discussions about music and musicians of all stripes from opera to folk. The topic last week was "The two Celine Dions"... turns out that the Celine Dion we have been gifted with  here is a very different Celine Dion from the one the ( European ) French get. She basically has an entirely separate career there and it's the polar opposite to her career here. Song choices are different ( no schmaltz or overblown production ), her entire vocal delivery is different ( none of the full-on overwrought trilly, sing-it-to-death, chest-beating schtick - she sings it straight-up with a restraint you would not believe she had in her...) and they played several examples to show it wasn't a co-incidence. Stripped of all the goo, it becomes apparent that she really can sing in a palatable way... Who knew? Makes you wonder if in Estonia or somewhere Kenny G plays it like a straight-up virtuoso talking to God through his instrument...but I digress.

In answer to your question, if Vegas Celine decided to do a Bowie cover album and it blew up and the Rolling Stone comment section wasn't the internet keyboard -warrior slagfest wallow that you would automatically expect it to be, I'd be too busy stocking up on ammo, canned food and bottled water to worry about it.
That's not my point. My point is that if Celine Dion did a Bowie covers album and say...oh Hell, say the little chubby guy from The Decemberists decided he didn't like her take on The Heart's Filthy Lesson ( Oh God...just imagine it ! No, no...Wild Is The Wind from Station to Station! Or Life On Mars !!! ), he can say it's not to his taste or that he didn't care for it - fair ball. Or show some real maturity and just shut up about it. He should probably not publicly crap all over it in front of a camera in Poland, have some Polish guy put his tirade on YouTube and then say all Polish people are uncool as a result. He should not then go public again and expand on his previous faux-pas in a fashion which makes himself appear both petty and disingenuous beyond any shadow of a doubt. And he certainly shouldn't threaten to lay a beat-down on her with a banjo if they ever cross paths because Bowie is a pillar of rock music who shall not be sullied by the Infidel. 'Cuz that would be...well, you know...

D.D. 

 

[dB Cooper]

I'm sorry, but the image of David Bowie beating Celine Dion with a banjo is going to take awhile to rid my head of.

[Diamond Dog]

Yup. It's the sorta thing that'll haunt a man's dreams...

D.D.