Getting into Daphile and a Schiit DAC

mcgsxr · « **on:** 22 Jan 2014, 01:16 pm »

I have a large collection of FLAC (around 1.5TB) in standard Rez, and a small collection of 24/X (some 88, some 96 and some 192).

I don't presently have a dac, but am thinking that is my next purchase.

I note that Schiit has an affordable Hi Rez DAC, and wonder how I can use it to play my standard red book FLAC.

Can Daphile turn FLAC into a compatible format for the Schiit Loki?

I have a dedicated NetBook for music, and am very familiar with LMS having used it and iPeng for years.

I do understand that such conversion of standard def files would provide no aural benefit, I simply want to buy only 1 DAC.

Thoughts?

geowak · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 01:58 pm »

I had never seen Daphile before. I will be checking it out, thanks. As to your question, I don't know. But I have contacted the guys at Schiit Audio and they have been helpful with questions. I have the Bifrost and really like it. I know the Loki would need a DAC to link with.
FWIW I think a Bifrost and Loki combination would sound very good.

ted_b · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 02:35 pm »

Guys,
The issue of FLAC is not a DAC issue, it is a player issue. The Schiit Loki is a DSD-only DAC, so any FLAC files (or any PCM container for that matter) would need to be upsampled by the player (JRiver, Daphile, etc) to DSD in order for the Loki to play them. A basic PCM DAC, like the Bifrost, will not need that conversion, assuming, again, that the player handles FLAC (and all do except iTunes).

Loki does not "need a DAC to link with". It is a DAC. It also has a passthrough for any other analog output, but that is a marketing thing to make folks think it can integrate two DACs (for example). I'd never use it, I'd use a second preamp input...but then again anyone starting out would NOT want to deal with two DACs, two DAC drivers, two USB connections, etc. Argh! Just get one and have the player convert any incompatible format to the other. Better yet, get a DAC that will do both DSD and PCM.

holzohr · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 02:55 pm »

Quote from: mcgsxr on 22 Jan 2014, 01:16 pm

Can Daphile turn FLAC into a compatible format for the Schiit Loki?

Daphile can not convert PCM into the DSD format. It "only" can convert DSD files to DoP (DSD over PCM) on-the-fly, what already is a plus for me. DoP is the format that's the Loki accepts.

Converting PCM into DSD on-the-fly, that's a feature of jRiver. Not sure if it is possible with "freeware" at all. I shall ask kipeta, the guy behind Daphile.
The Korg AudioGate http://www.korguser.net/audiogate/en/index.html can convert PCM into DSD or DSD into PCM. All you need is a (fake) Twitter account. Each time you want to convert/create something with the AudioGate you must twitter a message before. It's acceptable I think

ted_b · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 03:35 pm »

Realize that converting files offline creates new files (large files in the case of DSD or 24/176+ PCM) while on-the-fly conversion does not need this additonal step, nor the additional redundant storage...just additional horsepower!

mcgsxr · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 05:08 pm »

Interesting insights, I knew that I knew nothing, and it is proving very accurate!

I would love to hear about cheap and cheerful PCM and DSD compatible DAC's.

The Loki was extremely attractive given the pricing.

ted_b · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 05:54 pm »

The Loki is a real solution. Just have a fairly hefty cpu (i3 or i5 will do) and use JRiver to send everything to the Loki as DSD.

Russtafarian · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 06:07 pm »

I'm trying out Daphile right now and can confirm that you will want to use it with a standard USB DAC. If you want to play DSD files with Daphile, the DAC should also support DSD via DoP. Daphile will not convert DSD to PCM on the fly. If that's what you want to do, use Jriver as Ted recommended.

Russ

mcgsxr · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 06:58 pm »

OK, I will do some research about what a used PC with the relevant CPU and RAM will cost me vs just moving beyond the hi rez thing for now, and concentrating on a decent USB DAC for PCM.

I am guessing my Acer netbook with 2GB RAM and an Intel Atom N270 1.6Ghz CPU will choke on converting!

ted_b · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 07:20 pm »

The other question is: how much DSD do you have? If little or none, don't worry right now about converting anything if you buy a decent little PCM DAC. Use your laptop, a good PCM (that maybe also does DSD...for later use) DAC and get the music flowing.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 07:36 pm »

I likely have less than 10GB of DSD at present, and cannot use much of it.

I use a usb-spdif convert to feed my AVR as the DAC and pre - it can process 16/44 and 24/96 but not 24/88 or 24/192.

It is the lure of DSD as I expand my collection, and the current desire to buy a stand alone DAC that has me considering this.

That all said, I think you're likely right, that given my current state, a decent PCM DAC would be a good direction to strike off in.

Russtafarian · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 10:27 pm »

You can set up a trial version of Jriver on your PC and find out how it will work playing files into your AVR. You can set Jriver to convert all your files (24/88, 24/176, 24/192, DSD) on the fly to 24/96 or whatever the highest sampling rate your AVR will handle. It may or may not work, but it won't cost you anything to try.

Russ

k6davis · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 12:44 am »

Quote from: ted_b on 22 Jan 2014, 07:20 pm

The other question is: how much DSD do you have? If little or none, don't worry right now about converting anything if you buy a decent little PCM DAC. Use your laptop, a good PCM (that maybe also does DSD...for later use) DAC and get the music flowing.

As a cost-effective solution, I really like the $149 Schiit Loki combined with JRiver to upsample PCM to DSD.

I'm a fan of DSD and PCM to DSD upsampling - with a good sounding DSD DAC, of course.

I don't know of anything out there that can compete with that combo on price/performance.

ted_b · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 01:36 am »

Quote from: k6davis on 23 Jan 2014, 12:44 am

I'm a fan of DSD

Me too

(I'm often accused of being too big of fan)

Russtafarian · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 05:48 pm »

Quote

I'm a fan of DSD and PCM to DSD upsampling

I'm a fan of DSD as well, but primarily for native DSD files. I've tried Jriver's DSD upsampling into my Benchmark DAC2 with mixed results. I wish I could do it selectively. DSD upsampling does help smooth out some 16/44 titles that are a bit rough around the edges. OTOH, DSD upsampling pretty much mangled a 24/176 Reference Recording title. Could be that my 2 year old HP laptop isn't up to the task of upsampling big files like that.

Russ

geowak · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 06:37 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 22 Jan 2014, 02:35 pm

Loki does not "need a DAC to link with". It is a DAC. It also has a passthrough for any other analog output, but that is a marketing thing to make folks think it can integrate two DACs (for example). I'd never use it, I'd use a second preamp input...but then again anyone starting out would NOT want to deal with two DACs, two DAC drivers, two USB connections, etc. Argh! Just get one and have the player convert any incompatible format to the other. Better yet, get a DAC that will do both DSD and PCM.

Good to know, I had thought that the Loki needed a DAC to work with. I guess that makes the Loki even more appealing to those wanting a base DAC or explore DSD files, which I have not yet.

shadowlight · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 07:14 pm »

I think iFi iNano iDSD might be a better choice at $189 if I am reading the specs correctly. It will work with regular redbook/hirez pcm and native dsd. I do not have any experience with either iDSD or Loki.

Please correct if I am readying the iDSD specs wrong.

ted_b · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 08:06 pm »

Completely agree that spec-wise the iFi iDSD is a better choice for the OP. However, specs are one thing.

The Loki is a dedicated DSD DAC, and that one-task approach often works too.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 08:16 pm »

That iFi does look interesting, and it looks purpose built to serve my collection of mixed rez music.

Nice US price at under $200. Here in Canada the only place I can find it is $400 tax in...

I can wait, one will come up used on Head Fi no doubt.

avahifi · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 09:16 pm »

One advantage of the iFi iNano DAC might be that it does have normal SPDIF digital output so you are not stuck with its built in D to A converters and analog audio circuits such as you you are with the Loki.

I have the Loki, and it is nice, although lacking in transparency, smoothness, dynamic range and bass authority compared to our own AVA DACs. The iNano will feed digital into our DAC and then I will get a better sense of what DSD or ultra high bit rate can provide is really better or not.

I ordered one today from Music Direct. Everyone seems to be out of stock on them right now though, four to six week delivery.

Frank Van Alstine