Rogue amps question

Bigfishhk · « **on:** 22 Jan 2014, 01:23 am »

I have a Rogue 99 pre amp hooked up to a Tempest (integrated amp that can be used in power amp mode much like Rogue 90). Sounds excellent.

BUT:

1. HUM from Tempest. can hear from 6ft away. Sent it to Rogue to fix a few months ago. they replaced signal wiring with shielded cable. they reported it was silent.
It still hums though maybe not as bad. It is plugged into the same power strip as the pre amp. I have tried it plugged directly into the wall socket also. Rogue suggests its ground loop hum. At this point I am not sure it is. Have tried 2 prong cheater plug. Still Hums.

2. Pre amp easily picks up external noise if you tap on the shelf or the amp casing. Not a problem normally but wondered if that's typical?

IF anyone has any feedback on conquering the damn hum, I would be grateful.

thanks

TOm.

S Clark · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 01:41 am »

A friend bought a Rogue integrated that hummed. Had to send it back for repair. I'd just stay after them until you are happy with the sound.

thorman · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 01:44 am »

Try taking the preamp to another ac outlet in a different room and set it up temporarily the same way. I have heard cases where the Ac Line may have a loose ground wire at the Electrical Panel. Also shut the power off on the " Noisy " outlet and check to see if you have a loose or bad wire on the Ac outlet wire. Sometimes the wire over time can crack or even break where it is wrapped around the Outlet terminal. Also take the cover off the Tempest, where it enters and check the IEC connection......Hope you get lucky and find something loose....

S Clark · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 01:51 am »

Quote from: thorman on 22 Jan 2014, 01:44 am

Try taking the preamp to another ac outlet in a different room and set it up temporarily the same way. I have heard cases where the Ac Line may have a loose ground wire at the Electrical Panel. Also shut the power off on the " Noisy " outlet and check to see if you have a loose or bad wire on the Ac outlet wire. Sometimes the wire over time can crack or even break where it is wrapped around the Outlet terminal. Also take the cover off the Tempest, where it enters and check the IEC connection......Hope you get lucky and find something loose....

Good suggestion. While your at it upgrade your outlet if you haven't already. The outlet has a very real effect on sound.

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 02:28 am »

Quote from: thorman on 22 Jan 2014, 01:44 am

Try taking the preamp to another ac outlet in a different room and set it up temporarily the same way.

do you mean taking the amp, not the pre amp, and testing it in another room?
tx
Tom

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 02:29 am »

Quote from: S Clark on 22 Jan 2014, 01:51 am

While your at it upgrade your outlet if you haven't already. The outlet has a very real effect on sound.

I can follow up on that too. What type of upgrade should I look at?
tx
tom

S Clark · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 04:19 am »

You can spend $5 or $100. A good deal is the cryo'ed hospital grade outlets that Dave Elledge has- I think they are less than $15. He is a great guy- see the thread on his customer service that's currently posted... http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=123033.msg1296542;topicseen#new
His web site is http://www.piaudiogroup.com/ but a PM here at AC might get a faster response.

He has his own circle here and goes by "dBe"... http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=176.0

bladesmith · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 04:26 am »

I have heard rumors, that some tubes don't work well with Rogue equip.

Have you tried different tubes ?

NIGHTFALL1970 · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 04:30 am »

If all else fails you could try this:

http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=270&Itemid=256

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 05:30 am »

Quote from: bladesmith on 22 Jan 2014, 04:26 am

I have heard rumors, that some tubes don't work well with Rogue equip.

Have you tried different tubes ?

Yes, changed tubes, bought new from rogue in fact

thorman · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 01:27 pm »

Yah Tom : My reply for changing rooms was to use another circuit to see if the Hum is present on another line Outlet . You could be dealing with many different issues and I would try to eliminate the issues from the Electrical Panel forward......If you can temporarily set up your system in another room , it will at least tell you if the plug/s ( outlet or line ) in your normal listening room is the problem. If the Hum persists in your temporary set up room, than you can rule out Hum coming from Listening room Outlet or Line from the Panel....
You could also have a situation ( as mentioned ) that your Rogue is very sensitive to certain tubes, similar to Audible Illusion 3 A Preamplifier. This preamp has a reputation for being tough on tubes and require rugged Russian Tubes ......If you determine that it is a tube related problem I would contact Kevin @ Upscale Audio. He Vast knowledge of problem tubes ( with certain gear ) and can help you with proper tubes........Hope this helps and good luck...........

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 02:50 pm »

Quote from: thorman on 22 Jan 2014, 01:27 pm

Yah Tom : My reply for changing rooms was to use another circuit to see if the Hum is present on another line Outlet . You could be dealing with many different issues and I would try to eliminate the issues from the Electrical Panel forward......If you can temporarily set up your system in another room , it will at least tell you if the plug/s ( outlet or line ) in your normal listening room is the problem. If the Hum persists in your temporary set up room, than you can rule out Hum coming from Listening room Outlet or Line from the Panel....

Yes, good plan. Need to schlep the system into another room and test it.
thanks

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 04:50 pm »

Does it still hum when you mute your 99? If so, turn off amp, disconnect amp from pre, install shorting plugs to amps inputs and try unplugging all the upstream components one at a time (while amp is on). This sounds crazy I know since these components you're unplugging aren't even hooked up to the amp but it does eliminate the possibility of your amp picking up stray emf from the other components (a problem I had a while back). I also once had some hum in an amp that went away when I plugged the amp into a power conditioner.

Did you try cheaters on all but one component?

The 6SN7s in the pre can sometimes easily pick up taps and such. Don't worry about it since you can't tap the shelf at your listening position.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 05:56 pm »

To be clear, are we talking about a chassis hum? If it is coming from the amp, may be DC on the line. AVA's Humdinger could help with that (and there is a return option if it doesn't work).

Or hum through your speakers? If speakers, what kind of speakers do you have and how efficient are they? Tube amps aren't always dead quiet through speakers, particularly if the speakers have an efficiency of 90dB or above.

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 11:19 pm »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 22 Jan 2014, 04:50 pm

Does it still hum when you mute your 99? If so, turn off amp, disconnect amp from pre, install shorting plugs to amps inputs and try unplugging all the upstream components one at a time (while amp is on). This sounds crazy I know since these components you're unplugging aren't even hooked up to the amp but it does eliminate the possibility of your amp picking up stray emf from the other components (a problem I had a while back). I also once had some hum in an amp that went away when I plugged the amp into a power conditioner.

Did you try cheaters on all but one component?

thanks. going to get to this as well. Previously i had disconnected everything.. but need to go thru again. i tried the cheater only on the amp so far.

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Jan 2014, 11:22 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 22 Jan 2014, 05:56 pm

To be clear, are we talking about a chassis hum? If it is coming from the amp, may be DC on the line. AVA's Humdinger could help with that (and there is a return option if it doesn't work).

Or hum through your speakers? If speakers, what kind of speakers do you have and how efficient are they? Tube amps aren't always dead quiet through speakers, particularly if the speakers have an efficiency of 90dB or above.

Hum comes through the speakers, likely from the amp since when amp was sent back to Rogue, they also heard the hum and corrected it. unfortunately it's not silent back in my system at all.
Speakers- Salk song towers. rating is I believe 88/89.

S Clark · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 12:13 am »

Is Rogue willing to continue to attempt repair? If so, send it back again. They need to make it right and keep a happy customer.
By all means, try all the easy stuff, switch rooms, change tubes, try a 2 prong cheater, etc. but all these fail, send it back and remind them that this is the second time they've worked on it. If you can't get it right, sell it and move on. There are too many good amps out there at reasonable prices.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 12:30 am »

Remind us, is the hum softer than before Rogue worked on it previously?

I'd be sure to very systematically rule out the possibility of a ground hum, which can be a pain in the butt.

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 01:54 am »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 22 Jan 2014, 04:50 pm

. I also once had some hum in an amp that went away when I plugged the amp into a power conditioner.

for HUM caused by amp, emitted thru speakers.. is this what you mean (line conditioner)?

http://www.amazon.com/Furman-Series-Outlet-Conditioner-Protector/dp/B003BQ91Y6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390441780&sr=8-1&keywords=power+conditioner+furman

0r

http://www.amazon.com/Furman-Advanced-Conditioning-Aluminum-Protection/dp/B000YYVLAK/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1390441780&sr=8-7&keywords=power+conditioner+furman

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 12:05 pm »

Yes. Hum was through speakers. If your hum is coming from the amp itself (transformer) then there's not much you can do about it other than make sure all the fasteners are tight - including bolts securing the laminations and the bolts securing the tranny to the chassis.

I you have someone in your area who has a power conditioner already I'd recommend having him bring it over to try before you buy one. It may not solve your issue and I'd hate to have spent your money uselessly.