Transformer problems

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bart11073

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 13
Transformer problems
« on: 15 Feb 2003, 03:42 pm »
Hello,

I connected one transformer to my power supply board from the AKSA 100W and I measured 105VAC and -105VAC between the spades and the star earth. There seems to be nothing wrong with the transformer because I measured 35,3V between the CT and both other wires. What could be the problem? :?:

Bye,
Bart

PSP

Transformer problems
« Reply #1 on: 15 Feb 2003, 05:30 pm »
Hi Bart,
First, I hope that you are working on the transformer/power supply alone, and that it is not connected to your AKSA amp boards at this point.  If so, I'd suggest that you disconnect the power from the AKSA amp and from the power supply board.  If the power supply board was energized, you want to drain the power supply caps to avoid nasty sparks and shocks while you work (drain with a 15K 1/2 watt resistor across cap + to cap - using aligator clip leads, and watch the voltage on the cap decrease with your voltmeter... when the voltage is low, leave drain wires attached for a minute or two anyway, cap "soakage" can restore the voltage to levels high enough to cause sparks, small shocks, and maybe damage transistors, so be sure that the voltage on your caps is in the millivolt range before you work on your amp).

For the AKSA 100, if I recall correctly,  the rails should be:
+ Rail = +50v
SPG (earth) = 0
- Rail = -50v

For my 100w AKSA sub amp, I measured about +/- 51.5V, which is a bit high but marginally OK.  Since my Plitron transformers are epoxy potted and taking a few turns off the transformer would have been extremely messy, I've left things as they are...

So, the fact that you are measuring 105v looks suspiciously like:
  2 x 52.5 = 105, i.e. perhaps you are measuring across the two secondaries, not between each secondary output and the center tap.

I am not a transformer weenie, so proceed slowly and carefully.  I am offering this advice so that you can get started working on the problem, but you might want to wait until a true expert weighs in on this.

On my Plitron xfmr, looking at the wiring diagram that came with the xfmr, I wired for "dual secondaries" and "center tapped"... for this I connected brown and black together to make one lead to the mains and connected white and orange together to make the other lead for the mains.  

Yellow and blue were connected to make the 0 volt center tap, this will go to SPG (earth).  Then the single red wire goes to one AC lug on the AKSA power supply board and the single gray wire goes to the other AC lug on the AKSA power supply board.  On my particular transformer, red and gray are each 33 volts AC relative to yellow+blue (which we will connect to SPG = earth).  If the AKSA power supply board is built correctly, you should see something like +50v DC at the AKSA power supply + terminal and -50v DC at the -terminal.

Pardon all the detail about my particular transformer (which you almost certainly don't have)... and for sure, the wire colors on your transformer will be different (look for directions supplied with the transformer or check the manufacturers website)... the point is that these transformers are made to accomodate different line voltages (115, 220v, etc.) so you have to be sure that you have the transformer set up correctly.

When I first set up my transformer I wasn't sure that I'd done it right, so this is what I did (I am just telling you what I did, not recommending that you do it, OK?).  You will have live mains voltages here and extreme care and caution is necessary.  I would not do this if I felt that my concentration was likely to wander or if I was feeling a bit clumsy.  AKSA building is about sweet music, thrills and chills, not about dead audiophiles, so pay attention.

With the transformer sitting in the middle of my very clean and unclutterd workbench, I got a spare power cord (left from an appliance long ago thrown away) and (with the AC cord not connected to the mains) attached the cord to the AC inputs to the transformer (this would be the brown/black connection and the orange/white connection in my case)... I made the connections using the plastic twist cones (I don't know the real name) that electricians use to make mains connections in junction boxes.  I then hooked up my voltmeter (set to AC, range good for 200VAC) using clip leads to the transformer outputs (in my case this would be transformer red connected to voltmeter red, and transformer yellow/blue connected to voltmeter black).

Turn on your voltmeter, and make sure that everything is mechanically stable and electrically OK (no screwdrivers on your workbench to short out your transformer, nothing that could tip over onto your workbench and kill the cat when you plug things in)... then, sitting on an insulated stool with my feet off the concrete floor I plugged in the transformer and read AC voltage = 33v (excellent!!), then I unplugged the transformer, connected voltmeter red to transformer gray (the other transformer output lead) and tested that one (also 33VAC, also excellent).  At this point, I disassembled my Rube Goldberg test setup and connected the transformer to my AKSA power supply board.

An added saftey margin can be had by building a current-limiting box as suggested by John Curl on AA:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/29312.html

I built one of these and I wouldn't be without it.  If your new circut has a really big problem, when you plug it in the light glows (tells you that there is trouble) and the lightbulb filament serves to limit the current rushing into your new circuit (limits damage... if you are fast and lucky enough you might get the thing unplugged before parts are damaged or the smoke is too thick to see through  :mrgreen: )

I hope this helps, and be careful dammit!

Peter

bart11073

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 13
Transformer problems
« Reply #2 on: 15 Feb 2003, 06:05 pm »
I did exactly like you did, I also measured 35V on the secondary side of the transformer, but I measured 105V on the rail. I have absolutely no idea what is wrong... However, thank you very much for your comprehensive explanation!

Thanks!
Bart

PSP

Transformer problems
« Reply #3 on: 15 Feb 2003, 06:40 pm »
Hi Bart,
OK... I wonder if you have the power supply wired correctly.  I'm at work today (trying to catch up on the deluge!) about 30 miles from a schematic of the power supply.  

I'd suggest that you go over your power supply wiring, parts orientation, very carefully while you wait for morning in Oz and Hugh to get a cup of coffee...  

Good luck, take care.

Peter

AKSA

Transformer problems
« Reply #4 on: 15 Feb 2003, 09:50 pm »
Bart,

Have you a digital camera?

If so, take several pictures in and around the transformers and the power supply, and send to me.  I'll have a gander and let you know what's wrong.

Nearly all problems with transformer winding come back to the manufacturer's color coding or measurement technique.

When measuring AC, use the AC mode on the DMM, and when measuring DC, use the DC mode.  Don't mix the two;  measuring AC on a DC mode and vice versa will give very strange readings.

You need to make three terminations of four secondary wires.

One single wire is AC1 input, the other single wire is AC2 input.  These go to the two spade connectors on the AC input of one side of the rectifier board.  The other two wires are connected together and hooked to Star Earth.

You need to get these right, and this may be your problem.

Here's how.

1.  Identify the two windings.  Each has two wires, a start and a finish.
2.  Connect the primary of transformer with insulated wire to a mains outlet.  Take great care to do this properly, as some transformer have dual windings on the primaries for universal use.  Generally the color coding is blue and brown (active), but codes do vary around the world.
3.  Make sure all secondary outputs are accessible with the DMM probe.
4.  Find one secondary winding, and measure on AC mode from start to finish.  Should be around 35Vac, plus or minus for or five volts, depending on your local grid voltage.  It varies according to area and time of day.
5.  Make the meausrements for the other winding;  they should be identical, with maybe half a volt difference, no more.
6.  Now, connect one wire of each of the two windings together.  Put one probel of the DMM on this joined wire.
7.  Now, measure from the two conjoined wires to the other two wires, let's call them AC1 and AC2.  Each should meausure 35Vac as before with respect to the two joined wires.
8.  Now, measure from AC1 to AC2.  If you have the wiring correct, this voltage should be 70Vac, plus or minus around 5 volts AC.  If it is only 2 or 3 volts, then you have the wiring wrong, so swap ONE of the conjoined wires for the other wire of the SAME winding, then measure again.  This time you should have the 70Vac required.

Once you have identified the correct wiring regime, hooked the two conjoined wires to star earth permanently, and AC1 and AC2 to the two AC tabs on the power supply.  Be sure to connect to ONE of the TWO power supplies on the pcwer supply pcb,  viz. don't interlink between power supplies from the same transformer.  One transformer, one power suspply, say 1, then do the other power supply and connect to 2.

I hope this is helpful.  It causes a lot of difficulties.

Cheers,

Hugh

JohnR

Transformer problems
« Reply #5 on: 16 Feb 2003, 12:04 am »
Assuming Bart means 105V DC on the rails, not AC, it sounds like he's wired up a voltage doubler! :o

Is that possible by putting some of the diodes in backwards?

John H

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 10
Transformer problems
« Reply #6 on: 16 Feb 2003, 12:32 am »
Hi Bart:

If you measured 35.3VAC between  the secondary winding CT and the other two ends of the secondary windings and inputted this to the bridge rectifier with the CT connected to star earth, there is no way that the DC outputs from the bridge could be more than 1.4 X 35.3 = +/-49.4VDC.

You measured +/-105V AC(?).  There is no such thing as +/- AC voltage so this reading is  meaningless.  Make sure that you are using the correct DC voltage range on your multimeter. If so, try another multimeter.

Good Luck!

John H

bart11073

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 13
Transformer problems
« Reply #7 on: 16 Feb 2003, 09:11 am »
Yes I've used another multimeter and now it's all right: 49,4V. I don't know what was wrong with the other multimeter...


Sorry guys...and thanks very much for your help!!
Bart