[simoon]

I won't comment specifically on the article.

But what I will say is, the Sanders room at the SHOW in Newport Beach is at the top of my list of the best sounding rooms both years.

While I do agree that they have a narrow sweat spot, I have heard speakers with narrower ones. 

[dB Cooper]

While I do agree that they have a narrow sweat spot, I have heard speakers with narrower ones.

Really? I haven't.... Which ones? Narrrower than two inches (which is about as much "wiggle room" as I was able to get out of the system at CAF)  ?

I sat in all three chairs (arranged in a "column") at CAF and not only did the imaging change a lot (not for the better) with the slightest lateral movement, but also as you got nearer or farther from the speakers. I've got enough things in my life that have to be "just so" without my listening position being among them.

[Freo-1]

Well, they are ESL's after all.  As a former long term owner of Acoustat 33's, the sweet spot on those were narrow as well.  They were better than a lot of ESL's due to the crossover design.

By the way, not all the best speakers are at the audio shows.  Case in point:  One rarely see ATC speakers at these shows, yet they are without question some of the best made and sounding speakers available regardless of price. 

[simoon]

Really? I haven't.... Which ones? Narrrower than two inches (which is about as much "wiggle room" as I was able to get out of the system at CAF)  ?

I sat in all three chairs (arranged in a "column") at CAF and not only did the imaging change a lot (not for the better) with the slightest lateral movement, but also as you got nearer or farther from the speakers. I've got enough things in my life that have to be "just so" without my listening position being among them.

I did not notice as narrow of a lateral sweet spot as you describe when I listened. I did notice much more of an image change moving closer or further.

Narrower sweet spot?

I used to own a pair of Koss Model 1A electrostatics.

'nuff said...

[catastrofe]

Roger is a great guy, provides great customer service, and offers a fantastic sounding system at relatively reasonable pricing.  I owned a full 10C system with 2 Magtech amps.  The sound was excellent, but as others have pointed out, the sweetspot was very narrow.  Two inches of head movement as pointed out by db Cooper really did collapse the soundstage and the imaging.

I moved on to tubes and dynamic speakers and I'm much happier with my system now.

Hey db. . .where did you stash the money?   

[Russell Dawkins]

I'm wondering whether all these instances of collapsing images are under circumstances where the speaker panels are firing straight down the room, or are the axes crossed in front of the center seat position, as I think it should be.

[Freo-1]

I'm wondering whether all these instances of collapsing images are under circumstances where the speaker panels are firing straight down the room, or are the axes crossed in front of the center seat position, as I think it should be.

Very good question!  It would take quite awhile to get the Acoustic Spectra 33's set up with the correct angles.

[DustyC]

Roger, meet Peter Aczel (The Audio Critic). Peter, meet Roger Sanders. 

Both have talked about how twisted the High End has become. My own guideline is to review the measured performance of the product. Look inside to gauge the quality of construction. Decide if the product will work in my system based on the technical specs (i.e. no single ended triode tube amp with 2 ohm speakers, etc.).
If the subjective press does a review on the product, so what? I can't remember the last time I saw a real panning of a product in the printed mags.

How solid the company is and their track record is another important aspect that I check. I need that support if something goes awry.

[BruceSB]

HiFi News has given some real bad reviews.
Funny thing is that sometimes the manufacturer responds very positively, can't help but remember the fault they found in the Chord product  - and Chord really appreciated it and fixed the issue!
Sometimes the manufacture writes a complaining letter about reviewers who don't appreciate how good their product is!!
But yes, you are right bad reviews are rare.
Can't ever remember seeing a bad print review from a US publication!!
Another reason to subscribe to HIFi News … so that you can actually see an honest bad review!!
Just kidding!!
Just my thoughts
Bruce

[dB Cooper]

I'm wondering whether all these instances of collapsing images are under circumstances where the speaker panels are firing straight down the room, or are the axes crossed in front of the center seat position, as I think it should be.

At CAF I believe they had the speakers aimed straight at the second chair. Like I said, I sat in all three.

[dB Cooper]

Hey db. . .where did you stash the money?   

I spent it on audio equipment!

[Russell Dawkins]

At CAF I believe they had the speakers aimed straight at the second chair. Like I said, I sat in all three.

If that's the case, then only the third chair would have allowed the listener to sit anywhere but dead center and not have the image collapse to the near speaker.

I say this from the perspective of someone who has been chasing phantom images for 40 years. They usually get away.

[Rocket_Ronny]

I moved on to tubes and dynamic speakers and I'm much happier with my system now.

Can you share what that may be?

Rocket_Ronny

[catastrofe]

I'm wondering whether all these instances of collapsing images are under circumstances where the speaker panels are firing straight down the room, or are the axes crossed in front of the center seat position, as I think it should be.

Roger's instructions on setup are quite precise. . .you want the speakers toed-in so that they are aiming right at your listening position.  He even provides an easy tip to acheive this:  since the panels reflect light, you shine a flashlight straight ahead from your listening position, at head level.  You can see the reflection in the panel, and you center that reflection at exactly the same spot for each speaker.  You have now acheived "perfect" alignment.

The collapse occurs when you move your head out of this position.

[catastrofe]

Can you share what that may be?

Rocket_Ronny

Daedalus Ulysses speakers driven by Atma-Sphere amps and preamp.

[wakibaki]

I like him. He goes a bit over the top on a rare occasion, like more than one anti-audiophile, but considering the world of hurt objectivists live in, when trying to elicit some rationality in the audience, it's forgiveable. It's certainly a refreshing change from the sky's-the-limit, I'm-prepared-to-believe-anything-regardless-of-evidence attitude so common in audiophilia.

w