[Russell Dawkins]

An interview which addresses many core issues in a cogent fashion:
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2013/11/interview-with-roger-sanders.html

[bladesmith]

Doesn't really like tubes, does he.

 

Interesting read.

B.

[rajacat]

Does he know it all?
He minces no words when says his speakers are the best in the known world. ....as long as you don't move your head from the tiny listening position.

[Folsom]

Like reading a computers OPINION on the world of audio...

Some of it is entertaining. But again his limited vision of measurements constrain the imagination for what sound can be. I've heard lots of gear with high distortion that I love listening too, and lots of lower level distortion stuff that bores me to death.

I appreciate his conquering of some status-quo ability's of the industry. But he can't change what the ears hear, or measure at their sensitivity level.

The biggest fact in the audio world: If people buy it they like it, for WHATEVER reason we understand or do not. You can talk all day about why measurements and perfection is so, if people don't put the dollar down then it isn't a winning argument.

One could even say many of his approaches to good sound are incidentally creating the conditions we like to hear, and perhaps not for the reasons he believes to be so.... I think there might be a lot of extended myths in the audio engineering world for what creates a sound we like.

[mamba315]

Never heard his system, but the rumored (microscopic) sweet spot is the deal breaker to me.

Note that not all objectivists agree with one another.  For example, Geddes found that traditional THD measurements (like the ones Sanders has so much faith in) do not always correlate to actual listening, and he has the double blind tests to back it up.  Geddes was forced to develop his own amp tests in order to get test results that matched up with actual listening.

[SoCalWJS]

I will say that his speakers are very good (if you sit in the exact sweet spot and don't move - that's not how I listen to music).

Not surprised about what has been said of his feeling on Tube Amps - he has very specific needs to drive his speakers.

[Freo-1]

Doesn't really like tubes, does he.

 

Interesting read.

B.

He trashed Class D even more.


I do think it's a mix of facts with opinions, which is standard fare with audio.    And, while tubes are a pain in the ass at times, the closest setup I have listened to for the illusion of real music was a tubed setup, from digital buffer output all the way to the speakers.  Solid state just can't quite get the same timbre for non amplified instruments.     

[Folsom]

 Solid state just can't quite get the same timbre for non amplified instruments.   

I don't think I agree at all. But I'll say it isn't easy.

Wonder what he thinks of Hypex ?

[Freo-1]

I don't think I agree at all. But I'll say it isn't easy.

Wonder what he thinks of Hypex ?

Well, we can agree to disagree.  I've owned or listened to some very well respected high end solid state amps.  However, a set of DIY high powered tube amp monoblocks (with 12SX7/1625 tubes) sounds better on the speakers I've tried them with than any of the solid state amps.  I would also argue that the speakers employed have more effect than the amp used.  Once I obtained a set of ATC speakers with super linear drivers, my perspective of what is achievable for sound reproduction has changed.  They are ruthlessly accurate and revealing of both the recording and the electronics used to drive them.  I agree it is not easy.

My guess is that he is not keen on Hypex.

[avahifi]

Sanders says that only his power amplifiers have regulated power supplies..

He is mistaken.

Audio by Van Alstine hybrid and solid state amplifier have multiple regulated power supplies, including regulated power supplies for the output circuits, typically 10 independent regulated power supplies per amplifier.  Our Ultravalve vacuum tube amplifier has regulated power supplies too.

A friend has Sanders electrostatic speakers and his big power amp too.  The Sanders amp is relegated to driving only the bass dynamic speakers, a special version of an AVA hybrid amplifier with our multiple regulated power supplies is used for the electrostatic panels themselves.

Frank Van Alstine

[cab]

My guess is he isn't too keen on anything other than what comes out of his shop.

[jimdgoulding]

I've heard Sander's stats with his amps at a friend's listening "house" with my own music.  Impressive, but I didn't come away coveting them.  I've heard dynamic speakers that I like at least as much.  But, I'm a terrible romantic.  Anyway, I enjoyed the heck out of the article.  Thanks for posting, Russell.

[Geardaddy]

I think there might be a lot of extended myths in the audio engineering world for what creates a sound we like.

+1

I dig his speakers, but they are not the end all and be all.  They have their limitations just like everything outside of heaven.  The amusing thing is a lot of his disciples I know use tube amps and disagree with a lot of his rantings....

[AJinFLA]

He got about everything right except the speaker stuff 

[dB Cooper]

I will say that his speakers are very good (if you sit in the exact sweet spot and don't move - that's not how I listen to music).

Boy, you ain't kidding... I auditioned them at CAF last summer. On his website he addresses this, saying "Audiophiles sometimes say that narrow dispersion speakers require you to have your head in a vise.  This is nonsense.  You just sit in your listening chair and listen as you would to any speaker. And what about the off-axis performance of a narrow dispersion speaker?  Well, they sound just like wide dispersion speakers when you are off-axis." Suuuuure. I did some experimenting in their room and found that the stereo image was excellentin the sweet spot but if I moved my head even two inches it disintegrated dramatically. More than that and you might as well have been outside the room listening through an open door.

Sanders' design approach is to remove the room from the equation as much as possible by exploiting planars' beaming. I have found a way to accomplish the same goal for a very small investment in hi-end audio terms- it's called 'headphones'. Sanders' and other planars do certain things quite well. My problem is, the list of things they don't do well is as long as your arm. You pays your money and you makes your choice I guess. Most bothersome to me is the "I-have-the-answers-and-everybody-else-is-wrong" stance, which by the way is waaaaay too common in audio.

His most interesting statement is that a 192 Kb/S mp3 file is indistinguishable from Redbook playback of the same source material. Wonder how many of his customers are listening to mp3s on their $12k 'stats? And if all amps are essentially perfect, why did he make his own?

A mix of useful data and opinion presented as data ("a S.O.T.A. speaker must use an electrostatic midrange"). I do agree almost completely with his statements about the high end industry in 2, 34, and 35 though.

[harri009]

The funny part about it all to me is that he goes on about how they build everything in house and nothing is outsourced.  Well doesn't coda make his amps and pre with him "modifying them" oh and he uses a behringer crossover. Did I mention that his cables are mogami, besides terminating them they are stock cables that he markes up a TON.  So all this high and mighty BS is just that.

[macrojack]

Everyone whose livelihood is dependent upon sales of a product they manufacture is preaching the one true religion when they offer to educate you. In all cases, their product is the only one that cuts the mustard.

[Folsom]

Did he really say that about mp3's? I only believed that non-sense as a teenager before I had a real stereo. Maybe on his test bench they appears the same, which is his sole argument.

I guess he's just smarter than every audiophile that can't overcome their own ego and accept mp3's are perfect perfection of digital, the end all-be-all of our 21 century lives. Unless we are talking about amps, then it's class AB from digital crossovers.

[cab]

Most bothersome to me is the "I-have-the-answers-and-everybody-else-is-wrong" stance, which by the way is waaaaay too common in audio.

boy, isn't that the truth!

There are many that just can't accept the fact that ultimately it comes down to subjective preferences where there is no "best" or absolute "right" or "wrong". Would these same people try to market their restaurant as "the best"? There are so many brands because there are so many tastes. All are valid. I suppose it is human nature (or maybe capitalism) that creates this rather juvenile insistence on some sort of "ultimate supremacy".

[rockadanny]

(or maybe capitalism)

Doubt it.