[Pycroft]

Hi all...

This question is two part. I'm considering switching my current amp/preamp for an integrated amplifier - I'm figuring to try simplicity. I currently run Sony SS-M9 speakers, which I have been told can dip to 2 ohms. I'm using a Odyssey Dual Mono Stratos Amplifier and a TAD Signature 150 tube preamp.

Are there any suggestions of integrated amplifiers that can handle these speakers? Most of what I've read for integrated amps states 8 ohm and 4 ohm loads. I've looked at NAD, Modwright, Simaudio, etc. etc. - all between 1500 - 3000 used. For my budget, see below

Regarding budget - I'd like to find a trade for someone who may need/want my current amp/preamp, or sell them and use it to fund the purchase. I'm not into following the current trends on the used markets (I haven't purchased anything for a few years since I'm quite content with my current system. I purchased the Odyssey for a good chunk of change. The TAD, I can't even remember. With Paul G.'s untimely death, I'm not sure if my preamp is a valued commodity, or if it has decreased in value. If anyone can comment on the approximate used value of the pieces - either in the thread, or via private message if more appropriate. That will determine my approximate budget for purchasing/trading for an integrated.

Thanks!

James

[groovybassist]

James:

I use an Aaron No.1.a, which is stable into 1ohm loads. A quick search will show several reviews and one for sale on Audiogon, which is pretty unusual as you don't see them for sale often. Good luck in your search.

-Mike

[Pycroft]

Mike,

Thanks. That is certainly one to consider.

I would appreciate any other amps to consider.

I forgot to mention that I'd prefer to find an integrated that had ht bypass, and a phono input

Thanks, and keep them coming - especially with ideas of value of my current system.

James

[Ericus Rex]

If you're quite content with your current system why change anything?

Dipping into 2 ohms is quite normal for many loudspeakers and wouldn't pose any problem for a well designed amp.  You could get just about anything.  Amp outlets are rated for 4 and 8 ohms nominal which basically means 'more or less.'  Do you know what part of the frequency range dips into 2 ohms?

[Pycroft]

I'm happy with my setup, but am looking to streamline. Less wires, less space - and I've read a few interesting things about integrateds and their fluidity due to less pieces - separate amp/preamp etc. also, having the tube pre is sort of pointless for me, since I don't do any tube rolling, and have no interest in tweaking with all the tubes.

I read about the ohms years ago in a stereophile article (can be easily found online if you're interested in reading it). I was told by a number of people that I. Would require an amp that is 2 ohm stable, but can push 1 ohm, but I guess that's second hand knowledge.

James

[geared4me]

I had a look at that Stereophile review. This is taken from the measurement section: "The SS-M9 will go quite loud with only a few amplifier watts; its B-weighted sensitivity weighed in at a calculated 89dB/2.83V/m, the same as specified. However, its impedance (fig.1) remains between 4 ohms and 6 ohms through almost all the bass and midrange, and drops to 3 ohms and below above the audioband, meaning that the matching amplifier should not be fazed by low impedances". Looks like you just need a 4ohm stable amp, which will greatly increase your choices.

[Ericus Rex]

That's what I was getting at with the question about where in the frequency range it dips to 2 ohms.  My understanding is that 2 ohm loads are only taxing of the amp at low frequencies.  If I'm wrong about that I'm sure my AC colleagues will eagerly point that out.   

Whether you tube roll or not, you may miss that magic when it's gone.  I'd suggest hybrid tube/ss integrateds.  Rogue's new Pharoah looks promising and has all that you're asking for.  The smaller Sphinx has gotten some rave reviews since its release.  I'm sure it can be custom made with a HT bypass.  Rogue doesn't seem to mind custom work at all.  It's also very attractively priced.

www.rogueaudio.com

[Pycroft]

Thanks to all who have taken the time to respond. Perhaps the 2 ohm statement was for pushing the speakers hard? Anyway, as I said, it was second hand, so thanks for looki g it up. I'd love to hear other advice of what to investigate. Also, any insight as to what my current gear (listed above) is worth on the resale market? That goes directly to my budget for an integrated.

James

[Ericus Rex]

There's a TAD on Audiogon for $850:

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-tube-audio-design-tad-150-signature-pre-amp-2013-12-29-preamplifiers-23059


As for the Odyssey, one sold on ebay for $750:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Odyssey-Stratos-Stero-Ampllifier-/261294771636?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3cd661cdb4&nma=true&si=IGPMFMvkDmovzzFsZJMYiSNpE2Q%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


That should get you started.

[Pycroft]

That's the wrong amp, but a solid lead on the tad, thanks.

Would still love more suggestions of a hybrid or SS integrated in maybe the 2K range - ht bypass, and phono preferred. Thanks.

James

[JerryLove]

Every McIntosh I've played with supported 2ohm (many have / had a 2-ohm connector)
My Krell KSA-150 supported 1ohm (though that's a dedicated amp, not an integrated)

[AJinFLA]

Would still love more suggestions of a hybrid or SS integrated in maybe the 2K range - ht bypass, and phono preferred. Thanks.
James

The HK990 http://www.stereophile.com/content/harman-kardon-hk-990-integrated-amplifier-measurements

cheers

AJ

[Pycroft]

Thanks all for all the advice and suggestions,

I've done TONS of research over the last few days on options. A number of things have peaked my interest. A few general questions, then I'll be ready.  FYI, I think I'll be looking in the 2k - 2.3 k range, which leaves a lot of options

1) Regarding the Aaron No.1a amp posted above (I believe it was the first response) does it have HT Bypass? If I read correctly, it has a 'preamp' output, which I think said about adding another amp??? I wasn't sure if there was a function to it that would allow HT bypass?

2) I've read that some integrated units are basically a tube amp/preamp seperate, but in the same box (Basically, it was sold as the the model 1 amp and model 1 preamp, and basically it's those two in one box) and some are developed as a seperate entity entirely. Is there one preferred method?

3) I know there are a lot of numbers involved - frequency response, gain, etc. I'm not sure what much of it means - is there something significant I should be looking for in the numbers? I, of course, have been reading online reviews, and tonal descriptions etc. but I'm not sure what everything else means

Thanks!

James

[groovybassist]

James:

The Aaron No.1.a does have an HT Bypass mode.  It can be used as an integrated, preamp only driving an external power amp, or as a power amp only, being driven by an external preamp.  Hope this helps.

-Mike

[electricbear]

You could also consider the Audio Research DSi200. It is a great integrated with HT pass thru. There is one for sale ( listed 12/31) on www.usaudiomart.com for $2995.

[AJinFLA]

3) I know there are a lot of numbers involved - frequency response, gain, etc. I'm not sure what much of it means - is there something significant I should be looking for in the numbers? I, of course, have been reading online reviews, and tonal descriptions etc. but I'm not sure what everything else means
Thanks!
James

The "numbers" so to speak, are snapshots of physical reality. They can range from irrelevant, to very relevant, such as your stated requirements for "2 ohm stable". Reality is transferable, to me, you and everyone else.
Online reviews OTOH, are (most likely) simply one persons purely subjective opinions. They may be reflective of physical reality, or not at all. Some incorrectly believe that their purely subjective perception, are in fact unerring representations of reality and express disbelief, anger, etc. when these perceptions turn out to be non-transferable, i.e., not the same for you and I.
Like everything else, it's up to you, to decide which to weigh more heavily, into your decisions.
Your system operates in a real room, with real modes and other acoustic (soundwave) issues. The HK I linked has the ability to adjust/adapt your soundfield (pardon the pun) in meaningful (via the onboard bass management/eq), physical ways, which can significantly improve your sound.

cheers

AJ

[Ericus Rex]

2) I've read that some integrated units are basically a tube amp/preamp seperate, but in the same box (Basically, it was sold as the the model 1 amp and model 1 preamp, and basically it's those two in one box) and some are developed as a seperate entity entirely. Is there one preferred method?

3) I know there are a lot of numbers involved - frequency response, gain, etc. I'm not sure what much of it means - is there something significant I should be looking for in the numbers? I, of course, have been reading online reviews, and tonal descriptions etc. but I'm not sure what everything else means

Thanks!

James

I'd say most integrateds are based on an existing amp by a company.  Many don't include a full preamp from said company but include a simplified, sometimes even passive, preamp section.  There are always exceptions to this generalization.  And no, there is nothing wrong with a company doing this and there would not necessarily be an advantage to a company building an integrated totally from the ground up.  A good amp can make a good integrated and if a company designed from scratch a great integrated you'd be sure to find a separate amp-only version soon thereafter.

I consider the numbers (specs) of amps to be largely irrelevant.  Nearly all designs these days are competent (some more than others but nearly all work fairly well) and all the research I've seen suggests we tolerate THD to far greater levels than is usually present in current designs.  Great specs do not always make a great sounding amp and a great sounding amp may have far worse specs than it's competitors.