[DavidS]

I have been looking for owner/internet information on the newish Channel Island amps.  Was all excited to read they had a forum at Audio Circle but they seem to have been archived and not active.  Rats!

I get the impression that their amps VMB-1? are similar to Norh's Le Amps or even the Lab 47 monos.  Does anyone have these amps and can you tell me whether they are worth looking at in a system with a Jolida 100, Ellis speakers and a mapletree tubed pre?  Thanks for any feedback.

David

[Rob Babcock]

I think he just got too busy to support his forum here, and I regret that it was archived.  He'd be welcome to reactivate it if he can support it, but it didn't really have a lot of traffic.  That's sort of the Gold Standard for which Circles we keep & which get archived.  To keep bandwidth sane and to keep the site tidy we have to keep things lively.

[JLM]

I asked the same question a few months back.  I understand that chip amps work quite well with single driver speakers (see Scott Nixon's website or the Omega Speaker circle below for mentions/endorsements).  

The seven retail chip amps that I'm aware of are:

IRD MB-100 (great value and well built, see their circle below)

Norh LeAmp II (another great value, don't know about delivery time/service, see their circle below)

Rowland Concerta 1 (hyper expensive)

47 Lab Gaincard (the original, expensive)

AMP-1 (DIYer goes commercial, also expensive)

Scott Nixon (perhaps the cheapest and it shows)

Channel Audio (an apparent improvement over the Scott Nixon all the way around)

Chip amps seem to be very sensitive to assembly and parts used (visit DIYaudio.com web forum).  The last four all use the same chip I believe.

Until the digital amps came out, these were the leading fringe of solid state.

[CIAudio]

Our forum was archived because the people at Audio Circle didn't think there was enough interest here (had nothing to do with us!)

We'd be glad to answer any questions you have by email or phone.
dusty@ciaudio.com
(805) 984-8282

Happy Listening!
Dusty Vawter
CIAudio

[DavidS]

JLM - thanks for the great summary of what is out there.  Raises more questions for me - but this is the thread that I can use to do more reading and research.  Dusty - I am trying to sell my integrated amp so I can buy a new main amp (currently running a 10 year old NAD) so will likely call to discuss when I know I am in a purchasing postion.

One question I have is your comment JLM that the Channel Islands go well with single driver speakers.  Of course I have a two driver speaker that is a relatively inefficient load.  Would the comment about single driver speakers hold true for all chip amp products and why is this?

David

[triodesteve]

Final Labs Music-6. Certainly the most "out there" of chip amps and probably the most expensive, but a chip amp it is. And it works well with single driver speakers. I have an Oris 200 set up and a rat pipe built by Terry Cain...both sound good with the final.
Steve

[JLM]

DavidS,

I'm not sure if anyone knows why chip amps go well with single driver speakers.  System synergy is hard to predict.  Scott Nixon says the same with Carolina Audio JTMs (a single driver mass loaded transmission line floorstander that uses a single Jordan 92S).  One thing for sure a single driver system paired to a Scott Nixon or Channel Audio amp is a very simple, near straight wire design, and that intrigues me.  

Note that single driver speakers are in fact active designs, something that many professional and high-end home audiophiles lean towards and demand.  Active designs provide amazing performance advantages, just go back to Soundstage equipment reviews of the Paradigm 40 versus Active 40 and compare.  Chip amps seem to be rather delicate in comparison to other designs, so the less complex of crossover used and the less impedance varying (reactive), more efficient the speaker loading the better.

Scott offers 40 watt monoblocks for $350 in hammerite painted sheet metal boxes.  For $500 Dusty gives you bigger transformer, heat sink, overload protection, aluminum face plate, and a standby button.  (Better value in my book.)

Underwood Wally sells both the Channel Audio and the AMP-1 so he might be able to help compare the two.  A setup with Channel Audio (monoblocks plus passive pre-amp plus cabling allowance) versus the AMP-1 is roughly $500 difference (AMP-1 being more).  

The Norh Le Amp II appears to be still born.  Delivery dates have been delayed as much as a year due to third world production sorts of problems and perhaps poor design.  The IRD MB-100 is still going strong, but is an older design (like 47 Labs) and don't seem to be as competitive.  The MB-100 is still a solid high value product, but has lost it's state of the art status.

Dusty,

I'd very much appreciate any bones you could toss in here regarding your amp and amp/pre-amp combination.  Interconnect/cable/speaker matching, owner/professional reviews, your opinions of the sound, just anything.  Thanks.

[Psychicanimal]

Our forum was archived because the people at Audio Circle didn't think there was enough interest here (had nothing to do with us!)

We'd be glad to answer any questions you have by email or phone.
dusty@ciaudio.com
(805) 984-8282

Happy Listening!
Dusty Vawter
CIAudio

I've noticed an overwhelming tendency in this forum to chase 'new', 'flavor of the month' stuff.   Dusty's designs are about simple circuitry w/ short signal paths, efficiently packaged and affordably priced.  They rely on clean electrical power, adequate shelving and good cabling.  How much can one talk that over and over and over?

I've achieved impressive results using Channel Islands/Monolithic Sound *toys*.  My phonostage is Monolithic Sound; DAC and linestage CI.  The idea of having the Marchand active x-over Dan Wright modded following the CI passive is a killer combo for anyone wanting both sonic purity and dynamics.  Has anyone else tried such a setup since I posted the idea on the CI forum?  Not that I know of.  With the Mapleshade reggae CD I get bass that is *at least* six feet tall out of the Modwright Swans mini-monitors and two NHT subs.  A few months ago I had Devon,  a friend of mine from the Islands listen to the CD.  He shook his head as he muttered "I've got to get out of Auto Zone...".

[CIAudio]

VMB-1's are the results of over 5 years of experimenting with IC based amplifiers deisgns. We played around with various chips, power supply configurations, layouts and part substitutions until we found what we felt was the best balance of all things learned.

Although similar in concept, our amplifiers are different in many ways from the other offerings. To avoid giving away our secrets, I won't go into too much detail here. The main thing you'll notice right away is that we opted for monoblocks and a passive over using several chassis with outboard power supplies (or humpty's) with a rat's nest of umbilical cords and seperate L & R volume controls, which was not user friendly.

As for sound, VMB-1's sound neither like solid state or tube amplifiers.
They are sweet and smooth, but also very dynamic, detailed, with excellent imaging.

One misconception is that IC amplifiers are best matched with high efficiency, single driver loudspeakers. Although they work very well here, they are also well suited for most multi-driver designs. The real limiting factor is impedance...as long as the speaker doesn't dip below 4 ohms in the low frequencies and has reasonable efficiency (88db or so), they'll work fine. I personally use them with a pair of Von Schweikert VR-4jr's (a 3 way/5 driver speaker) with great results. We have many customers using them with 4 ohm rated speakers from Green Mountain, JM Reynaud, Meadowlark and others.

[modwright]

Hi Guys, let me preface this by saying that I am of course a Monolithic and Channel Islands Audio dealer and we mod Monolithic and C.I. gear.  I obviously think highly of Dusty's designs.

I knew that Dusty had this design and have been meaning to hear them, but hadn't had a chance until recently.

A customer placed an order for the amps, looking for a product to drive his single-driver speakers with 89dB efficiency (Omega Design).  I offered him the units with a full 30-Day return, if he was not satisfied.  I also asked to be able to hear them myself for a few days before shipping.

My impressions:

Build quality is excellent and typical elegant simplicity that I have come to expect from Dusty.  They are physically larger and more substantial than expected from the pictures on the website - www.ciaudio.com

They are rated for 40W and this doesn't sound like a lot of power.  I am accustomed to my Sim Audio W-3 amp, which is 150W/CH.  My speakers are 86dB efficient.

I was first impressed by the lack of typical SS 'edge', 'glare' and 'grain'.  The amps are VERY detailed and extended with fantastic bass and midrange, but without the 'glassy' and 'hard' sound of many SS designs.  My Sim Audio amp possesses the same quality and I am drawn to this sound.

Throughout my listening, I never found that the amps were lacking power or finesse.  As they broke in fully, I had to admit that I was hard-put to justify the cost of my Sim Audio amp.

In short, the CI Audio monoblocks are exceptional and in my opinion represent an exceptional value for $1000/pr.  I sent the customers amps on to him and proceeded to order another pair for myself.  I believe I will next order another pair and vertically biamp my speakers.  Obviously the Sim Audio W-3 will be going up for sale.  I had considered either adding another Sim Audio W-3 to my system and biamping, or upgrading to the W-5, but not now...

Those who know me, know that I am not one for hype and hyperbole.  I am a rep. for this product and of course stand to gain from their sale.  I am also a straight-shooter and people who have done business with me, know this to be true.  Are they the best amp in the world?  I couldn't say, as I haven't had many $20k, $30K + amps in my system.  Are they at least as good as anything I have heard under $5k - You Bet!  I feel that they simply offer an incredible value and performance for those who prefer tube OR SS amps.  They are simply musical and enjoyable.

Well done Dusty!!!

Dan

[JLM]

WoW!!

Thanks guys for the double barrel response!

Are there any more customer or professional reviews out there?

How about recommended interconnects, speaker cabling, or power cords?

Any advice on how to isolate them from vibrations?  (With the pre being so light and all of them being so small it gives me pause as to how to isolate them in a practical/looksome way.)

How suspectible are the amps to poor power sources?

I'll be picking up custom designed/built floorstanding mass loaded transmission line speakers that use the Fostex F200A (90 dB/w/m, 8 ohms, 25 - 20,000 Hz) in a couple of weeks.  These amps with passive pre seem perfect.

Thanks again.

[Tonto Yoder]

I'll be picking up custom designed/built floorstanding mass loaded transm ...

Didja see the Fostex speakers offered on eBay (a DIY job that's only available for local pick-up due to weight):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14993&item=5713779367&rd=1

[jqp]

DavidS,

The Norh Le Amp II appears to be still born. Delivery dates have been delayed as much as a year due to third world production sorts of problems and perhaps poor design. The IRD MB-100 is still going strong, but is an older design (like 47 Labs) and don't seem to be as competitive. The MB-100 is still a solid high value product, but has lost it's state of the art status. ...

Actually my order for 2 was finally ready last month, although I cancelled it and they went to the next one in line. As I was probably near the end of the line, Norh may be caught up on their Le Amp 2 orders by now...

[Psychicanimal]

How about recommended interconnects, speaker cabling, or power cords?

How suspectible are the amps to poor power sources?

I strongly recommend Ridge Street Audio cabling.  I use it and I have heard Lak's system w/ Abby speakers using Fostex drivers and RSA cabling.  As for power, it doesn't matter which brands you have.  Good, clean power is a prerequisite to good sound.

[J North]

how many wpc are the VMB-1's into 4 ohms?

[CIAudio]

how many wpc are the VMB-1's into 4 ohms?

about 65w

[JLM]

TY,

Those Fostex FE206E rear loaded floorstanding horns are more a typical example of Fostex based speakers.  Most are highly efficient with low Qts (lending themselves to horn loading) and whizzer cones.  The FE206E in particular is currently quite popular.  Mine use the 200A, their most expensive driver that is also 8 inches in diameter but has no whizzer and uses an alnico magnet.  It's Qts is also higher.  Overall it sports average efficiency, but tremendous detail with incredible bass for a full range driver.  In fact the term "full range driver" is over applied in a modern 20 - 20,000 Hz sense.  While users of single extended range drivers may be guilty of ranting about the importance of the midrange above all else so are marketing folks that hype the need for 10 octaves to reproduce music.  IMO the truth lays somewhere in between.

psych,

Thanks I'll look into them, but if they're anywhere close to expensive, I'll be going elsewhere as I'm just too old school (and having too good of success with my $20 pair of single strand plenum rated cryo'd CAT 5) to spend much on wiring.  I'm hoping to keep the cost of my entire disc playback system (with rack and wiring) under $5,000.

[Psychicanimal]

psych,

Thanks I'll look into them, but if they're anywhere close to expensive, I'll be going elsewhere as I'm just too old school (and having too good of success with my $20 pair of single strand plenum rated cryo'd CAT 5) to spend much on wiring. I'm hoping to keep the cost of my entire disc playback system (with rack and wiring) under $5,000.

The RSA cables have shifted my view on how a stereo system should be set up and how the money is allocated.   If you are DIY oriented you might want to try the new VenHaus cotton insulated silver wire.  RSA cables are cotton insulated silver, too.  I have my runs as short as possible in order to reduce cabling cost.  Cables like RSA will make the difference between having a Hi-Fi or having music.   I've talked to Dusty about these but he still has his mind fixed on copper...

[Jim W.]

Dan,

I'm that customer you speak of.  I have the Omega Super 3Rs with Fostex F120A drivers.  I also have a modded MiniMax preamp and the MiniMax tube HDCD player.  I bought the VMB-1s from you to replace the MiniMax amp, which I also have (soon up for sale), due to the 89dB sensitivity of the speakers.

The CIAudio VMB-1s are truly impressive.  My goal was to at least meet and/or exceed what I had with the 8-watt MiniMax amp, which is equipped with expensive Mullard rectifier and matched quad.  The VMB-1s exceeded my expectations, and thanks for the 30-day money back guarantee, but you're not getting the amps back.  I've lost nothing in replacing the already wonderful MiniMax, but have gained the control necessary to realize maximum bass response and definition from my Omegas (thanks Mike82 for pointing me in the "chip" direction).  You are correct, there is no "edge, glare, or grain."  No "glassy hard sound."  Midrange and vocals have actually smoothed out and are just as liquid as ever and still "tube-like," which is what I want.  I had a little problem at first with the bass response (a little muddy with a slight loss of definition), but that was easily fixed with different speaker wire.  I went from the heavy gauge, silver-coated copper DH Labs (BL-14?) wire to teflon coated CAT 5e cable, one 24-gauge run per terminal.  WOW!  Clarity, detail, clean bass response, and now with the increased power, my Omegas rock.  And, I still get all the wonderful detail at low listening levels.  A slightly heavier gauge wire (22- or 20-gauge) similar in design to the CAT 5e might even be better.

Long story short, I'm now done for a while with the purchase of new gear.  I'd say the best improvement to my system was the dedicated room, for which I constructed eight large bass traps.  I'll just experiment now with isolation tweaks, cables, power cords (maybe), and more room treatment, and of course listening.

Thanks,

Jim

[modwright]

Glad that you are enjoying them.  I took a while with you on the phone as I wanted to be sure that they would work for you and also because I had honestly not heard them prior to that myself.

I too was VERY impressed and I plan to buy another pair to biamp my speakers with   .

I will likely use these at the Colorado show in Oct.

Thanks and enjoy,

Dan