Tweaking existing solid state

DVV · « **on:** 14 Feb 2003, 11:25 pm »

Time for a new topic, which follows from the existing ones.

You have what you have, whatever it is; what can you do that would be rational, yet improve the sound of what you have and for some reason do not want to part with?

Say you have a Marantz PM7000 integrated amp - what can you do for reasonable money that would be meaningful? Just an example.

The door's open, please walk right in.

Cheers,
DVV

MediaSeth · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Feb 2003, 01:00 am »

I have replaced the jumpers on my NAD integrateds. While in theory a shorter connection like the jumpers that came with it should be better, a quality (and in my case sheilded unlike the jumper) custom length interconnect between the pre outs and amp ins on the back helped for only $80 bucks. Greater depth is the most obvious difference I've noticed.
I see a chance for Cardas or some such company to make a special replacement jumper that's better than a cable...or is that silly?

Any other tweaks are likely outside my expertise, and I'd have to purchase tools I don't have.

Haoleb · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Feb 2003, 01:28 am »

Media seth, i have seen jumpers before, but i dont remeber which company. IM sure if you emailed cardas and asked them to make a custom length jumper they would do it for you. I have the C-370 and right now i have the stock jumpers in there, i will have to go listen later with my spare pair of ic's on there instead. Anyway, i thought that interconnect cables had a pos and neg connection. ( some connectoion to the outside part of the rca) if thats true than why does the nad jumpers only connect where the pin goes?

nathanm · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Feb 2003, 03:10 am »

Quote from: MediaSeth

I have replaced the jumpers on my NAD integrateds. While in theory a shorter connection like the jumpers that came with it should be better, a quality (and in my case sheilded unlike the jumper) custom length interconnect between the pre outs and amp ins on the back helped for only $80 bucks. Greater depth is the most obvious difference I've noticed.
I see a chance for Cardas or some such company to make a special replacement jumper that's better than a cable...or is that silly?

Any other tweaks are likely outside my expertise, and I'd have to purchase tools I don't have.

Okay, I just tried your suggestion on my NAD. Yes, it's silly!

DVV · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Feb 2003, 07:39 am »

Quote from: MediaSeth

I have replaced the jumpers on my NAD integrateds. While in theory a shorter connection like the jumpers that came with it should be better, a quality (and in my case sheilded unlike the jumper) custom length interconnect between the pre outs and amp ins on the back helped for only $80 bucks. Greater depth is the most obvious difference I've noticed.
I see a chance for Cardas or some such company to make a special replacement jumper that's better than a cable...or is that silly?

As a suggestion, no, it is not. However, it is impractical, as each manufacturer has his own distances between associated points. How to accommodate them all, when the audio industry is notorious for evading each and every standard?

Quote

Any other tweaks are likely outside my expertise, and I'd have to purchase tools I don't have.

Well, buying a decent soldering iron and vacuum pump never bankrupted anybody Seth.

This would enable you to exchange supplied ICs with far better ones still at most reasonable prices (just an example).

Cheers,
DVV

DVV · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Feb 2003, 07:47 am »

Has any one of you guys considered changing some critical resistors inside? These would typically be input impedance and filter, differential pair resistors and negative feedback resistors. Usually 16-20 for both channels.

Using Vishay bulk foil resistors should produce significant (audible) effects, for example.

Or exchanging the humble op amps manufacturers use for really high quality ones. That's not expensive, an AD826AN for example costs less than $4 from AD itself, with the added bonus that you KNOW you are getting the real McCoy because you are buying it from the manufacturer direct (which is what I do, I always keep them on stock).

Possibly combining this with the above resistors will produce dramatic effects, and soon enough, you'll be like me, wondering why in heaven's name didn't the manufacturer do it himself, since it would have increased his price by say $50, but would have produced a much better product?

Cheers,
DVV

Raj · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Feb 2003, 09:51 am »

If your amp circuitry and heatsinks are suitable, one of the best tweaks is to increase the quiescent current, there isn't much that can affect sound as drastically as this.

Thanks
Raj

ABEX · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Feb 2003, 12:37 pm »

After posting a few questions about Vertical Amping my speaker's I think the best way to go would be to get all B&K amps and was wondering where I might find a site that could give me resource meterials as to getting ST-140,ST-202,Sonata's and EX-442 amps modified.

TIA

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 Feb 2003, 12:45 pm »

Quote from: ABEX

After posting a few questions about Vertical Amping my speakers I think the best way to go would be to get all B&K amps and was wondering where I might find a site that could give me resource meterials as to getting ST-140,ST-202,Sonatas and EX-442 amps modified.

TIA

http://www.musicalconcepts.com/new_page_1.htm

Musical Concepts used to advertise heavily about their Hafler and B&K mods.

ABEX · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 Feb 2003, 12:55 pm »

Well that helps,Thx!

To save $$ I will try to do the Mods myself.I already have an ST-202 that I can work on in the meantime.I will get the Caps,Transformer and Binding Post changed out to start with.Might change the Wiring also.

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Feb 2003, 03:00 pm »

ABEX,
seems like Musical Concepts offered several levels of mods--you could send in the unit and they'd do all the work and send it back.

Other mods were circuit boards that they sent you and you did your own installation. I have a B&K Pro 10 sitting around and have considered ordering the dual mono circuit board Musical Concepts offers, but it's in the $200 + range.

ABEX · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Feb 2003, 03:04 pm »

Tonto:
Wrote to MC today to ask about their mods.I would really like to know what the Values of the components in the stock amps so I could change out the Caps,Resistors and Transformer's myself.

I am also going to change out the Wiring,change caps to Blackgates and Binding Post in my ST-202.That will get my hands dirty because I have not done some of this stuff in yrs..

Thx!

Tweak1 · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Mar 2003, 10:34 pm »

Twins sons of different mothers? When I think of "tweaking" I think of isolation devices, cables, interconnects. So I would say start with some really good iso/vib control goodies like Stillpoints. I have them under everything, including my Nearfield Acoustic "Essence" 924s, 60+ pound, floor standing speakers. Try them 2 up, one down.

G-7 · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Mar 2003, 12:47 am »

I think the best would be to get an amp that doesn't need any tweaks.

Is there a one or what? Also, if someone thinks that BlackGate caps and other parts will significantly improve the sound when the design itself is shitty, just makes me laugh you know. But if you want to tweak, then go ahead and tweak.

ABEX · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Mar 2003, 02:29 am »

G-7
It is not that there are not amps or components that need tweeking,but you will will be paying high premiums for those designs.Designer's for midprice gear cut corner's to bring down cost and the only way around that is if you take a design that can be tweeked to bring up performance by switching out components and modifying the design.

Further,technology advances at such a rapid rate that designs that are more than 3-4yrs. old are obsolete in some cases before they ever reach the consumer.

One tweek that I'd like to see more of is Forward Biasing of ampsThe only amp that is midpriced that I am aware of that incorperates that is Odessey and they are getting great reviews.Other than that you have to get Krell ,ML and other's before you get past the veiled sound you hear in almost all amps I have listened to $1K or less.Oh Monarchy is great for the price especially used.

Yeah you will not get that last nth of detail,but you will be real close.And if you buy midpriced stuff you may as well forget about getting to real world sound because unless it is tweeked you will not get it.

That's just my observations.Throw your $$ at Krell and such if you can afford it.I'd rather get close to SOTA and use the $$ for other things.

G-7 · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Mar 2003, 09:41 pm »

I am not that "smart" to get Krell. There must be reasonably priced amp that doesn't need any tweaks, under 2k. Any idea except highly priced Krell, or lower Odyssey and Monarchy?
Any suggestion?, no NAD,Adcom, Creek or Arcam please.

JohnR · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Mar 2003, 09:54 pm »

AKSA?

G-7 · « **Reply #17 on:** 4 Mar 2003, 12:35 am »

What is AKSA? Do you want to sy GFY?

Anyway, I am not getting any ideas from you, so I think I will make some homebrew myself, tweak it with $200 Rubycon each, gold plated PCB, connected with silver wires only ofcourse. Then the magic will certainly happen! Actually........aaaaaaaah, I need some schematic, I almost forgot.

ABEX · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Mar 2003, 12:37 am »

The only amp I know of that comes to mind are the Monarchy's.I came close 2X's last year to getting a set of them,but had to pullout due to personal reasons.The 100 Deluxes are what I favor,but they go for $2400 new and you can get them for around $1K used.The 70's are less ,but I would want that added headroom.

In my opinion if an amp is not forward Biased tp run closer to ClassA SUCK!There is a veiling that once you get rid of it you'll never go back to listening to amps that are not.

Odessey's are also forward bias'd ,but their output Impedance is only 10K and are to low for a Passive preamp which I have.

BTW the Monarchy's are said to be close to performance to Pass Labs stuff for alot less $$.

JohnR · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Mar 2003, 12:41 am »

Quote from: G-7

What is AKSA? Do you want to sy GFY?
Anyway, I am not getting any ideas from you, so I think I will make some homebrew myself, tweak it with $200 Rubycon each, gold plated PCB, connected with silver wires only ofcourse. Then the magic will certainly happen! Actually........aaaaaaaah, I need some schematic, I almost forgot.

They have a forum here. Since you seem to be inclined to DIY

that's perfect, since it's a kit. You will want to get the "tweak pak" aka Nirvana from the get-go and then you'll never have to worry about whether anything in the amp ever needs to be tweaked. To be honest I haven't felt the need to "Nirvana" my stock amps.

HTH