NBA

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jackman

Re: NBA
« Reply #1 on: 25 Nov 2013, 11:51 pm »
Yep, and the Bulls are saddled with Rose's mega expensive contract for he next four years.  I wonder if they can amnesty this guy.  He's a great player when healthy but it will be interesting to see if he can recover from two knee surgeries. At least this one is relatively minor.  It's the one that Westbrook had, meniscus repair, not ACL reconstruction like the other knee. 

Rose is a good kid and I hope he makes it back to full strength.  I saw the injury when it happened and it didn't look like much.  Also, I've had the same injury but in my day they would just clean out the knee and take out the torn cartilage. This is no longer done for pro athletes because the knee is susceptible to arthritis over time.  Ask Dwayne Wade.  He had the old procedure done when he was in college and is paying the price.

I hope the Bulls take this time to clear out some contracts and trade Deng, amnesty Boozer and try to find a new home for Noah.  He's good but is way overpaid for a hustle type player with limited offensive skills.  The Bulls have too many great defenders (except Boozer who sucks) who can't score.  Gibson, Noah, Deng are all great defenders who can't create their own shots.  Without Rose this team is in trouble and Rose's contract prevents them from spending on needed help. 

Coach Thibs is one if my favorites but this team is in real trouble.  They are probably good enough to beat crap teams like Brooklyn, the Knicks, Cleveland, Boston, Milwaukee, etc, but have no chance against the likes of Indy and Miami.  This is a bad place to be - good enough to beat bad teams but not good enough to beat the good ones - unless you want your team to become the Atlanta Hawks.  I hope they tank, get good draft picks, get a lottery pick from Charlotte (from Tyrus Thomas trade) and fill it out with a few good free agents. 

Cheers

Jack

RDavidson

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Re: NBA
« Reply #2 on: 26 Nov 2013, 03:08 am »
Man, that sucks. Rose is a good kid. He works hard and always comes out ready to give 100%. He doesn't do anything showy when they announce his name in the lineup. He takes his job seriously and you can tell that he appreciates every opportunity to step on the court.........unlike, say, Dwight Howard. What a clown.

soundbitten1

Re: NBA
« Reply #3 on: 26 Nov 2013, 03:29 am »
Some players are just injury prone and others aren't. Lebron James never seems to get hurt, not seriously anyway.

RDavidson

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Re: NBA
« Reply #4 on: 26 Nov 2013, 04:38 am »
I know. The fact still remains : It sucks.

launche

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Re: NBA
« Reply #5 on: 26 Nov 2013, 02:07 pm »
I'm not a big Rose fan because I think he just takes himself way too seriously (ease up and enjoy life young man) and he is just not even remotely interesting.  Amazing athlete however and sad to see him suffer through these injuries.  Hopefully his future success will taste all that much sweeter and he'll appreciate and enjoy it having experienced this pain and disappointment. 

Yes, the Bulls are in a strange place and do need to look into shifting the dynamic of their team.

RDavidson

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Re: NBA
« Reply #6 on: 26 Nov 2013, 03:45 pm »
I'm not a big Rose fan because I think he just takes himself way too seriously (ease up and enjoy life young man) and he is just not even remotely interesting.  Amazing athlete however and sad to see him suffer through these injuries.  Hopefully his future success will taste all that much sweeter and he'll appreciate and enjoy it having experienced this pain and disappointment. 

Yes, the Bulls are in a strange place and do need to look into shifting the dynamic of their team.

Actually, I think he's just an introvert and a careful and guarded person. This likely has a lot to do with his upbringing on the south side of Chicago. I'm sure he enjoys life quite a bit when he's not in competition mode.........which for someone as competitive as he, is probably only 30% of the time. I fear he may go down as one of the best athletes the NBA has seen who may never get the chance at a championship (due to injuries).

TF1216

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Re: NBA
« Reply #7 on: 26 Nov 2013, 04:40 pm »
I am not a Chicago person but I love the Bulls because of Michael Jordan.  I like Derrick Rose a lot.  He is everything Allen Iverson was but with a better head on his shoulders IMO.  I hate to see athletes get injured for the entire year but I can't help my hope that Jabari Parker gets drafted by the Bulls.

Please tell me what would be more sweet than to see two Chicago boys, playing for the Bulls, from the same high school, take on the NBA and beat the Heat?  :thumb:

launche

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Re: NBA
« Reply #8 on: 26 Nov 2013, 05:01 pm »
I can't see Chicago being that bad as to get the #1 or #2 pick where Jabari would be.  Jabari looks a lot like Carmelo Anthony.  He seems like a nice kid and I wouldn't wish him to play for the Bulls, he may never smile again.  I respect the Bulls but I call them the no fun Bulls.  No one on that teams seems to smile or looks like they are enjoying the game.  Thibs is great but again, lighten up and allow them to have a little fun.

Thibs and Rose at your Thanksgiving table can you imagine, snoozefest.  Noah needs to get out of there, he's a fun loving personality being castrated by Thibs.  He says he hates the Miami Heat but I bet secretly he is envious and really wants to play there and he would be a perfect fit.  Noah has Miami written all over him and it seems like a natural fit.  He looks like Miami Beach.

jackman

Re: NBA
« Reply #9 on: 26 Nov 2013, 05:43 pm »
I don't think the problems the Bulls are having have anything to do with "fun".  Let's see how fun things are in south beach if Baby Bron Bron blows an ACL. Thibs is one of the best coaches in the game.  Rudy T did pretty well in San Antonio without a party atmosphere.  Everything looks easy when you have the league's anointed King who can do whatever he wants on the court.

The bulls are in trouble because they have no players who can create their own shots and they have tons of money tied up in very similar types of players.  Noah's contract is a killer because he has very limited offensive skills.  He runs the court well and plays great defense and he's a fun player.  He needs to be on a team with good offense.  I would love to see him on OKC or even the Clippers.  He'd be perfect for them but they can't pay him.  He's also developed well under Thibs. Not sure he would be the same player if he came up in a different system.  Also he's very injury prone and has not played a full season in a long time.

The Bulls also have charlottes pick in next year's draft.  They may get lucky and get Jabari. That would cure a lot of ills.  Plus he's a Chicago kid and would fit in well with this team and city. 

Thibs has gotten more out of mediocre talent than any coach I can recall. He's probably going to blow a gasket and be out of the game or die within five years.  The guy has no life and I agree with you, he's way too serious.   I love his old school approach to the game.   

TF1216

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Re: NBA
« Reply #10 on: 26 Nov 2013, 05:48 pm »
launche, you are spot on. 

If the Bobcats lose their way into the lottery the Bulls will not get their pick, correct?  The Bulls are good enough not to be in the lottery at this point.

jackman

Re: NBA
« Reply #11 on: 26 Nov 2013, 06:04 pm »
The Bobcat pick is protected top ten in '14 and I believe unrestricted in '16.  Their only shot is to get lucky with the ping pong balls as they did with Rose (not sure that counts as lucky any more).  Jabari will be in next year's draft, no doubt, and will be a top pick. 

I wouldn't count the Bulls out of the lottey.  Without Rose, they have no scoring and are already losing to bad teams (see last night's game).  Plus guys like Heinrich (Rose's backup who will be expected to pick up bigger minutes) and Noah are injury prone and on the bench at the end of the season.  There are so many bad teams in the league, they will have serious competition for the bottom slot but it's possible.  I'm not sure Thib's temperment will allow him to stick around with a bad team, especially one that is tanking on purpose. 

If they move Deng, trade Boozer (not likely because there is no interest) and make a couple moves, this team will have trouble beating the likes of Utau, Cleveland or even Milwaukee.  Even with those guys, they have not won since Rose was injured.  Without Deng (who is in the last year of his deal and is unrestricted next year), this team may be bad enough to get into the lottery (they are only four wins from worst record and lost to the worst team last night).  It sucks to wish for your team to lose but I hate to see the Bulls become the Atlanta Hawks...good enough to not get a high pick but bad enough to never challenge the big boys. 

launche

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Re: NBA
« Reply #12 on: 26 Nov 2013, 07:22 pm »
In the end what's the point if the players don't feel the joy of the game, get injured often from being worked to death and the coach has a heart attack or ulcer.

Chicago has good players, they will adjust and are just shell shocked right now.
Should have resigned little Nate Robinson but I guess he was having too much fun for Thibs.

Thibs would be an incredible college coach and I'm sure would win national championships but in a long NBA 100 game season, his approached is...taxing.

RDavidson

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Re: NBA
« Reply #13 on: 26 Nov 2013, 07:52 pm »
I don't think the problems the Bulls are having have anything to do with "fun".  Let's see how fun things are in south beach if Baby Bron Bron blows an ACL. Thibs is one of the best coaches in the game.  Rudy T did pretty well in San Antonio without a party atmosphere.  Everything looks easy when you have the league's anointed King who can do whatever he wants on the court.

The bulls are in trouble because they have no players who can create their own shots and they have tons of money tied up in very similar types of players.  Noah's contract is a killer because he has very limited offensive skills.  He runs the court well and plays great defense and he's a fun player.  He needs to be on a team with good offense.  I would love to see him on OKC or even the Clippers.  He'd be perfect for them but they can't pay him.  He's also developed well under Thibs. Not sure he would be the same player if he came up in a different system.  Also he's very injury prone and has not played a full season in a long time.

The Bulls also have charlottes pick in next year's draft.  They may get lucky and get Jabari. That would cure a lot of ills.  Plus he's a Chicago kid and would fit in well with this team and city. 

Thibs has gotten more out of mediocre talent than any coach I can recall. He's probably going to blow a gasket and be out of the game or die within five years.  The guy has no life and I agree with you, he's way too serious.   I love his old school approach to the game.

+ 1 Very well said jackman. Something to keep in mind here too is legacy. The Bulls organization, the coach, the fans, the players all want a championship, unlike a bunch of other organizations which are just lottery mills. What I see is focus and determination. Not a lack of "fun." They work hard. "Work" being the key word here. They're almost old school in their ethic. It's easier to have fun when your work is paying off, you're winning, the team isn't undergoing hardships (like injuries), and the prize is within sight. I'm not a huge Bulls fan. Not since Jordan left. I just like to see good basketball, good competition, and good/great athletes at their best.

jackman

Re: NBA
« Reply #14 on: 26 Nov 2013, 08:21 pm »
 

Hey Launche, I'm not disagreeing with 99% of your message.  The Bulls couldn't wait to get rid of little Nate and I was very sorry to see him go.  What an exciting player who is so fun to watch.  If you are trying to connect the dots between Rose's injury and playing time or fun-factor of this team, I will have to disagree.  He was on limited minutes, and the docs cleared him to play last year.  The Bulls let him stay out until he was 100% confident he was healthy.  Also, the injury was on a non-contact play.  Don't know if you have seen it but if you haven't, it didn't look like anything.  He just made a move and his knee buckled. 

Rose's style is high energy, always attacking.  He's not a good jump shooter and is not big enough to shoot over or muscle larger defenders.  He's a slasher and an extremely athletic player.  This style has nothing to do with Thibs, it's the way he has played since he was a kid and, more importantly, the only way he can be a dominat NBA player.  Rose will never be Steve Nash or Jason Kidd.  He has to rely on his speed and strength to be effective. 

Thibs gets a lot of criticism over playing starters big minutes and maybe it's warranted, however Noah has been on limited minutes and guys like Heinrich are old and broken down.  It's just a matter of time before he is hurt. 

As I stated earlier, it's easy to have a fun, party atmosphere when you have Lebron James.  The Bulls (before Rose was hurt) need to get everything out of all key players in order to beat the good teams.  They looked to be headed in that direction when they beat Indiana recently, before Rose went down.  Now, they are in dire straits and I'm hoping for a lottery pick! 

Cheers,


jackman

Re: NBA
« Reply #15 on: 26 Nov 2013, 08:49 pm »
+ 1 Very well said jackman. Something to keep in mind here too is legacy. The Bulls organization, the coach, the fans, the players all want a championship, unlike a bunch of other organizations which are just lottery mills. What I see is focus and determination. Not a lack of "fun." They work hard. "Work" being the key word here. They're almost old school in their ethic. It's easier to have fun when your work is paying off, you're winning, the team isn't undergoing hardships (like injuries), and the prize is within sight. I'm not a huge Bulls fan. Not since Jordan left. I just like to see good basketball, good competition, and good/great athletes at their best.

I agree this team was fun to watch play.  They stressed defense and solid basketball.  No doubt that will continue but this is a league of stars and it's imppossible to win without them.  IMPOSSIBLE for so many reasons.  The refs will always give a star the benefit of the doubt on key plays.  Watch when Jimmy Butler (an exciting and talented young player and killer defender) steps in front of Lebron to take a charge.  Guess who is going to get the call?  The Bulls not only do not have stars, now that Rose is out, they lack a starting point guard.  Kirk is a great backup but he's old and put together with duct tape and string.  No way he is going to make it all year without getting hurt.  His backup is Marcus Teague, a very raw and inexperienced point.  They have no cap space and, unless they trade some big money players, can't pick up anyone for less than league minimum.   

I'm disappointed because I wanted to see Jimmy Butler play with Rose when the team was at full strength.  IMO, they would have given the good teams a decent fight but that's no longer the case.  Even if they pick up someone from the scrap heap, I don't see this team doing anything more than getting bounced in the first round, assuming they make it. 

The Jordan era was a blast.  I had a chance to see him play several times in person and will always have great memories of watching the best player in the world.  MJ was a special player and I recall arguing with my friends around the country about why he was better than the other stars of the era (Magic, Bird, etc.).  It's funny because most people today agree Jordan was the best of his era.  Midway through his career many people outside of Chicago did not agree.   I'm admittedly biased when it comes to comparing Jordan with players of today, even Lebron, but aside from his mental toughness and physical skills, I'll always remember him as one of the most competitive players in the game. 

I have a friend whose identical twin brother played in the NBA (Vern Flemming who also played with Jordan on the '84 olympic team) and he always had so many cool stories about the game.  He once told me about a time in the closing seconds of a key game, coming out of a timeout with the Bulls down by one point, Phil Jackson had just drawn up an elaborate play and as the players were about to take the court and inbound the ball, Michael turned to the guys and said, "just give me the F'ing ball and get out of the way" or something to that affect.  Jordan was not only willing to take the last shot, he insisted on it.   I'm sure that scenario happened more than once.   

Cheers,

J

RDavidson

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Re: NBA
« Reply #16 on: 26 Nov 2013, 09:11 pm »
I agree this team was fun to watch play.  They stressed defense and solid basketball.  No doubt that will continue but this is a league of stars and it's imppossible to win without them.  IMPOSSIBLE for so many reasons.  The refs will always give a star the benefit of the doubt on key plays.  Watch when Jimmy Butler (an exciting and talented young player and killer defender) steps in front of Lebron to take a charge.  Guess who is going to get the call?  The Bulls not only do not have stars, now that Rose is out, they lack a starting point guard.  Kirk is a great backup but he's old and put together with duct tape and string.  No way he is going to make it all year without getting hurt.  His backup is Marcus Teague, a very raw and inexperienced point.  They have no cap space and, unless they trade some big money players, can't pick up anyone for less than league minimum.   

I'm disappointed because I wanted to see Jimmy Butler play with Rose when the team was at full strength.  IMO, they would have given the good teams a decent fight but that's no longer the case.  Even if they pick up someone from the scrap heap, I don't see this team doing anything more than getting bounced in the first round, assuming they make it. 

The Jordan era was a blast.  I had a chance to see him play several times in person and will always have great memories of watching the best player in the world.  MJ was a special player and I recall arguing with my friends around the country about why he was better than the other stars of the era (Magic, Bird, etc.).  It's funny because most people today agree Jordan was the best of his era.  Midway through his career many people outside of Chicago did not agree.   I'm admittedly biased when it comes to comparing Jordan with players of today, even Lebron, but aside from his mental toughness and physical skills, I'll always remember him as one of the most competitive players in the game. 

I have a friend whose identical twin brother played in the NBA (Vern Flemming who also played with Jordan on the '84 olympic team) and he always had so many cool stories about the game.  He once told me about a time in the closing seconds of a key game, coming out of a timeout with the Bulls down by one point, Phil Jackson had just drawn up an elaborate play and as the players were about to take the court and inbound the ball, Michael turned to the guys and said, "just give me the F'ing ball and get out of the way" or something to that affect.  Jordan was not only willing to take the last shot, he insisted on it.   I'm sure that scenario happened more than once.   

Cheers,

J

Yeah. I loved watching Jordan too. My grandparents, who never really got into watching basketball, changed when they started watching Jordan. I used to go to my grandparents' house and hang out, have dinner, and watch games with them, especially when it came to playoff time. Ah.......great memories.
For the longest time, I'd say Jordan was the greatest (easily of that era) and most definitely in the conversation of greatest ever. His influence on the game and even on sports in general is unparalleled. I must admit, now, I think Lebron is better. I think Jordan and Lebron are about equally gifted athletes except in terms of size. In a game of one on one, Lebron would back Jordan down into the paint and win that war the majority of the time........but, it'd still be an extremely close game.
I've always heard that some of the best basketball ever played was the stuff none of us ever got to watch ; The first Dream Team's practices. I don't know how true this is, but in an interview, Magic said Jordan once got mad in practice and dunked on David Robinson and put his arm into the hoop ala Vince Carter style. Even if this wasn't totally true, it isn't entirely out of the realm of imagination. To be a fly on the wall......Can you imagine?

RDavidson

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Re: NBA
« Reply #17 on: 26 Nov 2013, 09:22 pm »
Jabari looks a lot like Carmelo Anthony.

Actually, I kind of think Jabari looks more like Lebron lite. Emphasis on "lite." He's larger and more physically gifted than Anthony (much like Lebron when he was 18) and can play more positions. At least it appears this way at the college level. At lot depends on how he develops in the NBA. Anthony was more versatile in college as well, but in the NBA has developed into a guard with some forward skills / strengths.

jackman

Re: NBA
« Reply #18 on: 26 Nov 2013, 10:35 pm »
Actually, I kind of think Jabari looks more like Lebron lite. Emphasis on "lite." He's larger and more physically gifted than Anthony (much like Lebron when he was 18) and can play more positions. At least it appears this way at the college level. At lot depends on how he develops in the NBA. Anthony was more versatile in college as well, but in the NBA has developed into a guard with some forward skills / strengths.

I hope Jabari doesn't become another Carmelo Anthony.  Anthony is a selfish ball hog who plays no defense and has picked up lots of bad habbits on the court.  He has the ability to put up numbers by chucking up tons of bad shots but he does nothing to make the other players on his team better.  Simply put, Anthony is a LOSER.  I think he's in for a surprise after this season when he tries the free agent market.  Little does he know, the Knicks are the perfect home for a player like Anthony.  They are a team of losers and he is a perfect fit. 

Now, Lebron lite is a totally different matter.  I'd love to see Parker come in the league and try to emulate Lebron in every way (except maybe that poor taste he showed when he left Cleveland and rubbed it in their faces...).  Lebron is a great defender and all around team player.  Everyone on the court (for Lebron's team) is better when he's on the floor.  If Parker turns out half as good as Lebron, he will be ten times better than Anthony. 

Cheers,

J

TF1216

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Re: NBA
« Reply #19 on: 26 Nov 2013, 10:38 pm »
I remember watching a couple of Lebron's high school games on ESPN.  It was obvious then that he was one of those rare talents where there was no way he would be a miss at the top pick of the NBA draft.  I don't see that extra something in any of the highly touted college players yet.  Wiggins can jump through the roof but so could a lot of other young guns that were supposed to be the next big thing.  Jabari is awesome but to me he looks like a Paul Pierce clone.  Randle and Smart are great but they don't have that "something" like Lebron had.  Plus, what's with beating teams by 40 points and celebrating a dunk like you saved the earth from the apocalypse.  Does that irk anyone else?

I am not a huge NBA fan anymore but I do love the "Michael Jordan".  I often sit and think about what it would be like to pull players and teams from history to put against each other now.  I'd almost trade my dream stereo system to see Michael Jordan's Bulls play Lebron's Heat.  I would have to include in that package Lebron's Heat against Barkley's Suns and Malone's Jazz.  I don't think Lebron could overcome the truly great NBA players from the 90's.  When I think a young gun is good I think about how Barkley and Kemp used to leap to the rim.  When I think about scorers I think about Bird and Reggie shooting three-pointers.  When I think about real big men I think about centers like Hakeem, Robinson and Ewing dropping buckets from 15 feet away.  I think the league is watered down and people don't know it.  I will however admit, I am wrong most of the time.