[WireNut]

Push-pull for bass

[Guy 13]

Hi Guy13

This means alot of things if you think about it!

one of the things is:

Sealed loudspeaker systems are best at low loudness levels.
Ported loudspeaker systems are best at high loudness levels.

For home use sealed is better.
For club use ported is better.

of cource you can use any speaker type anywhere

this was just a comparison between these two...hope this helps, if not, no worries...

Hi Georgopoulos and all Audio Circle members.
May I disagree with you ?
I think for music or HT sealed is better at hi volume.
Ported is better at low volume because they are a little more efficient than sealed.
I hope someone can prove me wrong or agree with me or just make it better written, please do so.
Waiting for comments.

Guy 13

[Guy 13]

Push-pull is the way to go. Only the best loudspeaker manufactures build them......

Hi WireNut and all Audio Circle members.
Are you nuts or what ?
Sorry about that, I wanted for quite a while to say that,
now that it's been said, I feel better.
Don't get mad, it's a joke.
Can you give us one or two names or links of manufacturers that build push-pull subwoofer.
Thanks.

Guy 13

[WireNut]

Guy13,

If your really interested in push-pull designs you'll seek them out

[Folsom]

Who's designing? They all can sound good. I actually like OB, too. Straight sealed can be a little constrained sometimes. I tend to prefer a dynamic sound.

[dB Cooper]

This thread is confusing as hell

[bladesmith]

Who's designing? They all can sound good. I actually like OB, too. Straight sealed can be a little constrained sometimes. I tend to prefer a dynamic sound.

X2....

[Davey]

This thread is confusing as hell

The premise of the original query is questionable.  The thread can't go anywhere but get more confusing. 

Vented boxes and sealed boxes are apples and oranges.  Assuming you could declare one better than another is not possible.

Dave.

[planet10]

Ported is better at low volume because they are a little more efficient than sealed.

Ported are the same efficeincy as sealed, the box only affects low frequencies. A vented box will generally provide more gain at the lowest frequencies.

dave

[G Georgopoulos]

The premise of the original query is questionable.  The thread can't go anywhere but get more confusing. 

Vented boxes and sealed boxes are apples and oranges.  Assuming you could declare one better than another is not possible.

Dave.

ok close down this thread,i'm not an expert in loudspeakers anyway...

[bladesmith]

I love my PSB STRATUS GOLD I'S.

They are ported and I push them.

There is a lot to be said about personal taste.

Differently apples and oranges..

[G Georgopoulos]

Ported are the same efficeincy as sealed, the box only affects low frequencies. A vented box will generally provide more gain at the lowest frequencies.

dave

Dave, yes i agree with you, that's what i said 'bass'.

"A vented box will generally provide more gain at the lowest frequencies."

yes at the high power levels...

correct me if i'm wrong?

[JLM]

Best (sealed vs. ported) also depends on application.  Realize that we're only speaking of 300 Hz (at most) on down.

I prefer sealed due to roll off matching with room gain, less out of phase (back wave) signal escaping (as with most designs much can still come out through the cone or simply by contacting the cone and smearing the sound), and they seem to integrate better with a sub.  I don't prefer sealed due to reduced efficiency and dynamics (both issues that adding a sub helps to address, but that sort of avoids the whole question here).

Note that classic ported designs from the 70s/80s added a mid-bass boost so that that deep bass levels would stay that much higher (works great for rock).

There are a myriad of options for producing better bass, but there is no perfect speaker, just trade offs for taste, opinion, etc.  But probably the best solution, if you don't move your head, use the same chair to listen in, and can tolerate some physical discomfort is a good quality headphone with a butt buzzer.

[Guy 13]

Best (sealed vs. ported) also depends on application.  Realize that we're only speaking of 300 Hz (at most) on down.

I prefer sealed due to roll off matching with room gain, less out of phase (back wave) signal escaping (as with most designs much can still come out through the cone or simply by contacting the cone and smearing the sound), and they seem to integrate better with a sub.  I don't prefer sealed due to reduced efficiency and dynamics (both issues that adding a sub helps to address, but that sort of avoids the whole question here).

Note that classic ported designs from the 70s/80s added a mid-bass boost so that that deep bass levels would stay that much higher (works great for rock).

There are a myriad of options for producing better bass, but there is no perfect speaker, just trade offs for taste, opinion, etc.

Hi JLM and all Audio Circle members.
As usual, well said.
 
Guy 13

[Steve]

Personally, I like to play deep pipe organ, so a sealed enclosure works better for me as the slope is less drastic.
Also don't have to worry about uncoupling at deep frequencies. I don't have a problem with Dynamics.
I guess one could go with a Karlson or RJ enclosure but too much hassle.

I like the full coverage in general.

Cheers.
 

[Vapor Audio]

This thread is confusing as hell

You can say that again!  No shortage of disinformation ... unfortunately I don't have the time right now to fully delve into the topic.

To boil it down there's no better or worse, just meeting goals.  Push-pull isn't better, all that accomplishes is meeting goals with enclosure size and 'possibly' reducing even order distortion.  Sealed isn't better, all it does is introduce a different rolloff and reduce group delay which is marginally (at most) audible.  And ported isn't better either, it just extends the F3 point but at the cost of enclosure size. 

If buying a speaker, in my mind there's no reason not to buy one that optimizes bass extension.  You as the user can also tune from there, by doing things such as stuffing a sock in the port.  But it's better to have the extension and not need it than need it and not have it. 

[rajacat]

What about midwoofers? I have a pair of AE TD15M's that will be used in 2-way waveguide speakers. I'll be using the minidsp for the active crossover. I plan to have separate bass bins for the midwoofers with the waveguides mounted on top in separate boxes.
I keep vacillating between 5 cu. ft. vented boxes and 3 cu. ft. sealed boxes. The vented boxes would give me a lot lower bass but would be relatively huge, harder to build and perhaps not have the nice tight upper bass response. I do have three subs so my low end won't be lacking but the added bass from the vented boxes would add to the distributed bass effect.

 Hmm...I wonder how low I could extend sealed the TD15Ms' using the minidsp + room gain.

[planet10]

"A vented box will generally provide more gain at the lowest frequencies."

yes at the high power levels...

correct me if i'm wrong?

At all power levels.

An important thing to remember is that as the power levels change so do the T/S levels.  They change in a such a way that sealed boxes tend to remain constant whereas typical vented boxes will mpve in and out of tune.

dave

[Vapor Audio]

At all power levels.

An important thing to remember is that as the power levels change so do the T/S levels.  They change in a such a way that sealed boxes tend to remain constant whereas typical vented boxes will mpve in and out of tune.

dave

Driver and enclosure are very important to that.  Done correctly the tuning will change very little with different levels. 

[G Georgopoulos]

At all power levels.

An important thing to remember is that as the power levels change so do the T/S levels.  They change in a such a way that sealed boxes tend to remain constant whereas typical vented boxes will mpve in and out of tune.

dave

Thanks...