Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?

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Stilgoe

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Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« on: 17 Nov 2013, 12:51 pm »
The manual says that the input impedance of the 7bsst is balanced 20kohm. Great . As I understand it this can be variable with frequency. Does anybody know what the lowest it goes to is please. I have scoured the net but can only figures for the 4bst, and the sst2 range. They seem to vary considerably from the manual spec. Does the 7bsst vary this much too? I've email bryston , but got no answer. 
The reason I would like to know is because the pre I'm going to be using which is an ARC 27 which  has an output I mpedence of 700ohm balanced which on paper is fine but from what I have read vary greatly too with frequency. AR haven't got a definitive answer for the variances on this figure either!
I'm also using 10 metres of quad core vandamme interconnect between them on each channel which inlay make a difference for the worse if the figures aren't good.
I'm now contemplating just using 10m of speaker cable instead and keeping the interconnects .

Thanks in advance for any info you can give me on this.
« Last Edit: 17 Nov 2013, 07:16 pm by Stilgoe »

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #1 on: 17 Nov 2013, 01:15 pm »
The manual says that the input impedance of the 7bsst is balanced 20kohm. Great . As I understand it this can be variable with frequency. Does anybody know what the lowest it goes to is please. I have scoured the net but can only figures for the 4bst, and the sst2 range. They seem to vary considerably from the manual spec. Does the 7bsst vary this much too? I've email bryston , but got no answer. 
The reason I would like to know is because the pre I'm using which is an ARC 27 which  has an output I mpedence of 700ohm balanced which on paper is fine but from what I have read vary greatly too with frequency. AR haven't got a definitive answer for the variances on this figure either!
I'm also using 10 metres of quad core vandamme interconnect between them on each channel which inlay make a difference for the worse if the figures aren't good.
I'm now contemplating just using 10m of speaker cable instead and keeping the interconnects .

Thanks in advance for any info you can give me on this.

Sent to engineering for you.

james

Stilgoe

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #2 on: 18 Nov 2013, 10:16 am »
Many thanks James, It will be interesting to see how much it varies. I have contacted ARC and they seem to think that the 27 should have no problems driving a pair of 7bsst with 10m balanced interconects but seem uncertain of the amount of variance involved in the output impedance at different frequencies.

klao

Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #3 on: 18 Nov 2013, 06:14 pm »
From the latest 7B-SST2 measurements by JA at the Stereophile:  "The balanced input impedance was 10k ohms across the audioband; the unbalanced stayed close to a moderately low 7.5k ohms at low and middle frequencies, dropping a little, to 7.2k ohms, at 20kHz."

Here's the earlier 7B-ST's one by TJN at the same magazine:  "The input impedance of the Bryston measured 16.7k ohms, balanced and 48.9k ohms, unbalanced (essentially the same in the parallel configuration)."

They don't have the 7B-SST measurements, though.  :)

Output impedance of tube preamp rated by manufacturers are just nominal numbers; they do change at different frequencies too.  But I'm sure you're aware of that.  Cheers!

Stilgoe

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #4 on: 18 Nov 2013, 07:09 pm »
From the latest 7B-SST2 measurements by JA at the Stereophile:  "The balanced input impedance was 10k ohms across the audioband; the unbalanced stayed close to a moderately low 7.5k ohms at low and middle frequencies, dropping a little, to 7.2k ohms, at 20kHz."

Here's the earlier 7B-ST's one by TJN at the same magazine:  "The input impedance of the Bryston measured 16.7k ohms, balanced and 48.9k ohms, unbalanced (essentially the same in the parallel configuration)."

They don't have the 7B-SST measurements, though.  :)

Output impedance of tube preamp rated by manufacturers are just nominal numbers; they do change at different frequencies too.  But I'm sure you're aware of that.  Cheers!
Exactly my findings. No definative figures on the 7bsst. Hence my post:)

Speedskater

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #5 on: 19 Nov 2013, 02:02 pm »
Do you have the '7bsst' and the 'ARC 27' on hand?
It's easy to measure the output impedance with a test tone CD and your sound card.  Input impedance probably needs an RMS meter.

Stilgoe

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #6 on: 19 Nov 2013, 08:58 pm »
Do you have the '7bsst' and the 'ARC 27' on hand?
It's easy to measure the output impedance with a test tone CD and your sound card.  Input impedance probably needs an RMS meter.

Thankyou,

I would have thought that the amps being nearly 10 years old, the figures my be to hand in the Bryston factory.  They are after all  "industry standard" where measurements are important.

Stilgoe

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #7 on: 22 Nov 2013, 10:29 pm »
Sent to engineering for you.

james

Hi James, any news on this query?

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #8 on: 22 Nov 2013, 11:09 pm »
Hi James, any news on this query?

No response yet - sorry!

james

Stilgoe

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #9 on: 4 Dec 2013, 08:51 pm »
2 weeks anniversary now. Any news?

BrysTony

Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #10 on: 4 Dec 2013, 09:36 pm »
I have been using an ARC LS-27 with 7BSST2s for over 2 years.  I recall that when I was considering the pairing I read somewhere that the ratio of amp input impedance to preamp output impedance should be greater than 10.  Without digging into variances I was looking at 20K to 700 so I decided that was a non issue.  I am using 1m balanced cables but I doubt that it would make any difference to go to 10m.  I am very happy with the pairing of the ARC LS-27 and 7BSST2s.  Go for it!

Tony

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #11 on: 5 Dec 2013, 12:24 am »
2 weeks anniversary now. Any news?

Will ask engineering again!

james

Stilgoe

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #12 on: 5 Dec 2013, 08:49 pm »
I have been using an ARC LS-27 with 7BSST2s for over 2 years.  I recall that when I was considering the pairing I read somewhere that the ratio of amp input impedance to preamp output impedance should be greater than 10.  Without digging into variances I was looking at 20K to 700 so I decided that was a non issue.  I am using 1m balanced cables but I doubt that it would make any difference to go to 10m.  I am very happy with the pairing of the ARC LS-27 and 7BSST2s.  Go for it!

Tony

Mmmmm interesting, what speakers and cables are you using Tony?
Cheers for the input:)

And James, Thankyou once again for looking into this for me.

BrysTony

Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #13 on: 6 Dec 2013, 03:57 pm »
Mmmmm interesting, what speakers and cables are you using Tony?
Cheers for the input:)

And James, Thankyou once again for looking into this for me.

I am currently using PMC TB2i speakers and Bryston balanced interconnects and speaker cables.

Tony

Stilgoe

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #14 on: 6 Dec 2013, 10:22 pm »
I am currently using PMC TB2i speakers and Bryston balanced interconnects and speaker cables.

Tony
Mmmmm, nice Tony, bet they sound a treat:) .I'm also using PMC ,but the big brothers of the TB2i , the IB2i.  I've gone ahead and got the LS27 as Audio Research distribution uk had assured me that they have heard this combo before and no problems were had with mismatch of components. They were very helpful answering within the hour!!! Amazing.  It's early days on the LS27, but it certainly sounds very nice.
Happy listening Brystons peeps.

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #15 on: 8 Dec 2013, 02:05 pm »
James;

Sorry for the delay in answering this inquiry.  The input impedance of the 7B SST2 in balanced mode is 15K. (In unbalanced mode it is 50K). Bryston amplifiers have an input filter that slightly reduces the input impedance at 20kHz, to around 12.5K on the balanced input.

When fed from a (relatively high) preamp output impedance of 700 Ohms, that will result in a relative loss at 20kHz of 0.08 dB.  If fed from a preamp output impedance of 100 Ohms, the loss at 20kHz would be less than 0.03dB. Either way, this would be considered negligible. 

The losses due to cable would not materially affect these numbers.  Cable impedances are low, less than 1 Ohm. Most interconnect cable will show roughly 20-25 pF of capacitance per foot. Over a 10-foot run, this will change the above figures by a small fraction of a dB, maybe 0.03-0.1 dB, depending on preamp output impedance. I would consider this still negligible. 

I hope the above is helpful, but please let me know if you have other questions.

Best regards,
Chris Russell
Bryston Ltd.


Stilgoe

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #16 on: 8 Dec 2013, 08:58 pm »
Really helpful James,
Thankyou for your efforts.

Still, not the 7bsst that was originally needed though:)

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #17 on: 9 Dec 2013, 12:49 pm »
Really helpful James,
Thankyou for your efforts.

Still, not the 7bsst that was originally needed though:)

I believe the 7B SST is the same as the SST2 but I will check.

james

Stilgoe

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Re: Bryston 7bsst (2004) input impedance?
« Reply #18 on: 10 Dec 2013, 11:11 pm »
I believe the 7B SST is the same as the SST2 but I will check.

james
Thanks James,

I really appreciate you're help:)
The 7bsst manual says input impedence on the 7bsst is 20kohm so not the same as the squared version which states 15kohm. 

Thanks very much again.