[Marbles]

Don't like those little wimpy digital's huh*, maybe you need the Symphonic Line Kraft 400 mono's, if you can find them...only about 12 pairs in the USA, and less than 40 in the world.

Case is 32" long and about all power supply.  Weight is around 225 Lbs EACH!







Of course if you want them bad enough, Rolf will make a pair for you for only about $34,000 for the pair...shipping from Germany is extra  


* Just kidding to all of you digital folks.

[perfectionist]

Don't like those little wimpy digital's huh*, maybe you need the Symphonic Line Kraft 400 mono's, if you can find them...only about 12 pairs in the USA, and less than 40 in the world.

Case is 32" long and about all power supply.  Weight is around 225 Lbs EACH!

I wish I knew how to qoute the last two postings, but I don't...

Well, this is just too much fun!  

George, I admit, I know nothing of these digital amps, but it just seems like it's going the wrong direction to me.  
And I've already seen some 'dissing on some forums.  But, I will do some research on the little cuttie's.

Marbles, so we go from one extreme to the other
Those are cute too.

Now, if I could just find something in between...

[zybar]

As with ALL audio gear, try to hear it first or have the option to return it.

Before the 201's I pretty much just owned tube amps (although I would try a ss amp from time to time).  IMHO, the 201's get me close to a good tube amp in the midrange and are far superior at the extremes.  Where they do fall somewhat short is in the "seductiveness" factor.  A good SET or my old Kora mono (100 watts Class A Triode) just had a way with voices (especially female vocals).  It was adding something, but it was oh so pleasing...

Anyway, what are you looking for your new amp to do better than your current one?

George

[perfectionist]

As with ALL audio gear, try to hear it first or have the option to return it.

Before the 201's I pretty much just owned tube amps (although I would try a ss amp from time to time).  IMHO, the 201's get me close to a good tube amp in the midrange and are far superior at the extremes.  Where they do fall somewhat short is in the "seductiveness" factor.  A good SET or my old Kora mono (100 watts Class A Triode) just had a way with voices (especially female vocals).  It was adding something, but it was oh so ...

Well, I'm currently bi-amping using the Manley 250's and an Aragon 8008BB and an ARC preamp.  This set up seemed to be working well with my Stratus Gold's, but I'm not so sure with the VR-4's.  And seperately, it's the same old ss vs. tube quandry.  The Manley's are just so damn smooth, but lack the the kick you in the " " that I so love.  And the Aragon has the goods down below, but lacks the depth, seperation, smoothness, blah, blah, blah.  But, the Aragon is a good amp in it's own rite.  I just wanna take it to the next level and the VR's are pretty amazing.  I think a good quality pair of ss mono's with a tube preamp, and maybe even a cdp with tube output (someday) may do the trick.
I'm reading a lot of good stuff about the JC-1's, especially for the dough.

[lonewolfny42]

Don't like those little wimpy digital's huh*, maybe you need the Symphonic Line Kraft 400 mono's, if you can find them...only about 12 pairs in the USA, and less than 40 in the world.

Case is 32" long and about all power supply.  Weight is around 225 Lbs EACH!

Wow Marbles !! I never realized how big those amps are !!

They look about twice the size of my Krell !! I guess you don't move those around much... .....WOW !!!!![/list:u]

[ctviggen]

George,

Do you use any tube gear upstream of the JRs?  I was thinking of adding some type of tube product (CDP, preamp) upstream of my JRs.

[Marbles]

Wolfy, I have moved them once (JUST ONCE) and that was to turn them 90* from where they were and to stack the one on top of the other.  Neither one is more than 4' from where they were first set up!

Perfectionist, you might want to try Van Alstine amps, or the Odyssey extreme monoblocks.

[jermmd]

I'm using a tubed preamp and CD player with my SS amp into RM30's and I really think I've got the best of both worlds.  The sound, dynamics and total range of my set-up is amazing.  That said, don't be fooled by the size of those little JR digital amps.  I've heard George's system and it gets LOUD without distortion.  If only they were a little cheaper...

Joe M.

[SWG255]

Last December I compared the VR-4 SE's to the VMPS rm40s and bought the RM40s. I liked BOTH speakers very much, but the RM40s satisfied me a little better. I wrote a comparative review here on AC and on AA. Beleive me, I would've been happy to take the VR-4s home too.

The point of my reply is that when I was researching the speakers I kept hearing that the VR-4s were "voiced" with digital amplification, and one of the online reviewers who raved about the VR-4s was using digital amplification. I'm using a modified Carver Pro ZR-1600 digital amp for my VMPS RM40s, and I would urge you to listen to one of the better digital amps out there. They excel at dynamics and detail. There sonic signature is different from most solid-state or tube amps, i rather like it. Your mileage may vary, but again, you should probably give them a listen, you may find it time well spent.

I wish I knew how to qoute the last two postings, but I don't...

Well, this is just too much fun!  

George, I admit, I know nothing of these digital amps, but it just seems like it's going the wrong direction to me.  
And I've already seen some 'dissing on some forums.  But, I will do some research on the little cuttie's.

Marbles, so we go from one extreme to the other
Those are cute too.

Now, if I could just find something in between...

[perfectionist]

Last December I compared the VR-4 SE's to the VMPS rm40s and bought the RM40s. I liked BOTH speakers very much, but the RM40s satisfied me a little better. I wrote a comparative review here on AC and on AA. Beleive me, I would've been happy to take the VR-4s home too.

The point of my reply is that when I was researching the speakers I kept hearing that the VR-4s were "voiced" with digital amplification, and one of the online reviewers who raved about the VR-4s was using digital amplification. I'm using a ...

SWG255,

I read your review before I purchased.  Believe it or not, your review was a major factor in my decision.  By that, I don't mean to purchase the VR's over the RM 40's, but to seriously consider the RM 40's.  It came down to two choices, the RM 40 or the VR-4 for me.  I won't bore anyone with all the factors I considered before buying, but again, I will say that there were two major points;  No dealers in my area and which would be easier to sell if I wasn't happy.  And now I need to make a decision on amplification, and again, NONE of the amp's I'm interested in can be heard in my area, so here I go again...

I just got off the phone with James Bongiorno of SST after a nice 45-60 minute conversation, very enlightening.  Ampzilla 2000 mono's just moved way up on the shortlist and I really haven't even looked into the technical aspects of these amp's yet.  But I like James honesty and no b.s. approach.  We discussed digital amps for all of 3 minutes and we seem to be on the same page...Too much freaking signal manipulation

But, having said that, I guess I owe it to myself to at least look into the technical aspects of these digital amps.
But, I'm kind of "old school" when it comes to certain things.

Marbles, Van Alstine isn't producing a monoblock.  I looked into the Odessey mono's, interesting and I dig the options, but I don't want to continue to dilute the shortlist, it just gets too cumbersome.

I hope people will continue to post thought's on amp's, but would really like to hear some banter on:
JC-1, AMPzilla 2000, 7B SST and JR 201

[cytocycle]

Thanks Zybar for confirming the Rowland 201's as amazing (I'm the one that keeps suggesting them)! I was blow away by how smooth, natural and fast these were when I tried them with my Wilson Watt Puppy 7 system.  I only put ~100 hrs on them so they weren't broken in completely but they were amazing.  I look forward to trying the 501's as I still prefered my Lamm M1.1s, but they easily beat my old ARC D400 MkII and EAD Powermaster 2000 (125lbs) and other heavyweights.  My Lamm's can raise the room temp 10 degree  in a matter of minutes!  The rowlands were ice cold and always on! I loved that.. Great bang for the buck (For a jewel like Rowland component).

The Ampzilla's I heard with RM40's at a friends and was pretty impressive but only after we replaced the recommended speaker cabling (home depot) and interconnects with all transparent reference then the bass solidified and became tighter and the sound stage opened up considerabily (it was a night and day difference) like we replaced a component. Yes the cabling costs as much as amplifier but it made a bigger difference in  pushing it to the next level.  Now he has bought all transparent cabling and a Placette Active preamp which did amazing things to his dynamics.  I can't wait to visit and give his system a listen now.  I believe there is a nice synergy between VMPS and Ampzilla but I'm not sure that is a given with the VR's.

The Bryston ST series was definitely harsher than the Rowlands and would require a very forgiving tube preamp, but the SST series is suppose to be smoother but still it can't compare to the liquidity of the 201 (closest thing to tubes without the hassels). I have to agree that I have heard more romantic Tubes (coloring) that I liked, but wasn't representive of the music actually sounded.

[Enrico]

Thanks to cytocycle and zybar for posting about the Rowland amps, which I'm really interested in (currently I have VMPS 626R speakers).

Based on brief auditions of other digital switching amps, my impression was that their Achilles heel might be the treble, at least when compared to a really good solid state amp (Pass, perhaps the So. Ampzilla). They didn't seem to have the airiness and extension I want, especially with the ribbon tweeters.

Looks like you guys may not agree; I'd love to hear more about the treble performance of these amps.

[zybar]

Thanks to cytocycle and zybar for posting about the Rowland amps, which I'm really interested in (currently I have VMPS 626R speakers).

Based on brief auditions of other digital switching amps, my impression was that their Achilles heel might be the treble, at least when compared to a really good solid state amp (Pass, perhaps the So. Ampzilla). They didn't seem to have the airiness and extension I want, especially with the ribbon tweeters.

Looks like you guys may not agree; I'd love to hear more about the treble performance of these amps.

Enrico,

I think the treble performance of the 201's is much better than the Pass X-250.  I found the Pass to have a grain/gritiness in the midrange and treble that the 201's just don't have.  

I have heard some other digital amps and none sounded like the 201's.  Just like you don't throw all ss or tube amps into the same bucket, don't do it with digital amps.

If you look in the SoCal Circle, you will see some comments about the 201's, SOA, and Pass amps.

From my viewpoint, I found the Pass not to be more natural sounding, but to be a little warm, grainy, and colored.  

George

[shokunin]

Thanks to cytocycle and zybar for posting about the Rowland amps, which I'm really interested in (currently I have VMPS 626R speakers).

Based on brief auditions of other digital switching amps, my impression was that their Achilles heel might be the treble, at least when compared to a really good solid state amp (Pass, perhaps the So. Ampzilla). They didn't seem to have the airiness and extension I want, especially with the ribbon tweeters.

Looks like you guys may not agree; I'd love to hear more about the treble performance of these amps.

The M201's are different, their achilles heels is definitely NOT the treble.  The treble on the 201's are grain-free, pure, and clear, better than the Pass.  I find the lower midrange and midbass more to my liking on the Pass, but that's just me.  I like more warmth in that area so that should be expected.

[Enrico]

Thanks zybar, shokunin, the Rowlands are now on my list of 'stuff I wanna hear'!