[haiderSonneteer]

An important moment to us here at Sonneteer towers is when the Sedley Phono stage started to outsell the CD players. There has certainly been a surge in vinyl and the hardware demand reflects that. There are, however, many millions of CDs out there and still being sold. To be fair too, some CD players do muster up a performance that even the die hard vinyl lover jigs to.

So should we be tooling up for the gear CD revival or will it be confined to the bins alongside the Compact cassette?

[JohnR]

Hi Haider, my thinking is that it's hard to imagine there will ever be a nostalgic revival of the CD. However that doesn't mean that the CD format is consigned to the dustbin, not for a good while anyway. It's value lies in (IMHO) its ubiquity as an interchange format and the vast amount of content already in that format. I occasionally go onto eBay and buy a stack of used CDs, for example - it's an inexpensive way to obtain content which you can then rip into your library.

Related to one of your other questions, if you ask people over for a listening session and say "bring some of your own CDs", everybody knows what that means, and even if their whole collection is on hard drive, they'll burn something to bring over. Asking people to bring over USB sticks or hard drives just wouldn't work as well.

However I don't see how dedicated CD players can survive. A modern Blu-ray player will play almost anything from disc, as well as files, stream from network drives, etc. Oh, and play movies too

[jarcher]

I seriously doubt it. Even the vinyl thing I think is more driven by fad then nostalgia. I.e. few over 40s - even audiophiles - seem to me that enthusiastic about vinyl, whereas some 20-40s who like the limited edition / collector aspect of the media and also find the hardware cool to look at are probably the growth factor. I could see the novelty wearing thin as they get older with more obligations (work and mostly children). With that kind of life / day, who wants to come home and hassle with a record player?

CDs on the other hand are for the most part not rare and most all CD players don't have the "cool" factor, with a few exceptions. They are also not nearly as convenient as digital files on phones / computers / etc. Once car stereos, perhaps the last cd hold out, start integrating Bluetooth, AirPlay, etc for easy wireless communication, I could see them dropping cd all together. Already many have USB connections for iPods / flash drives etc which bridges the gap.

It's getting to the point that even legally accessed music has become both highly convenient in delivery and almost free (I.e. spotify, pandora, etc).

So IMHO, hardware-wise if I was a manufacturer I'd be focusing on speakers, DACs, music servers, or best yet, attractive convenient and good sounding devices that integrate as much as possible all three of those. As much as I'm a hopeless gear hoarder, my experience is that what future audiophiles are willing to splash out extra cash for are things like headphones and Sonos type systems.

[haiderSonneteer]

However I don't see how dedicated CD players can survive. A modern Blu-ray player will play almost anything from disc, as well as files, stream from network drives, etc. Oh, and play movies too

Yes I can see your point John. Dedicated CD players are in a curious place right now. Though at the high end where a number of smaller companies play, developing a Blue Ray based player is a costly risk in both time and money. So, for as long as they are supporting them, Blue Ray will be in the hands of mass market producers. There are already signs that even they see it as short lived project.

Haider

[haiderSonneteer]

So IMHO, hardware-wise if I was a manufacturer I'd be focusing on speakers, DACs, music servers, or best yet, attractive convenient and good sounding devices that integrate as much as possible all three of those. As much as I'm a hopeless gear hoarder, my experience is that what future audiophiles are willing to splash out extra cash for are things like headphones and Sonos type systems.

Yes indeed. There is a lot of logic in what you are saying. We are sensing a lot of hard core resistance from a shrinking group of people who as you say, tend to be older. Tackling the indifference of the younger music listeners (under 40s) is the challenge. As great as Sonos is for what it is and I would certainly recommend it for certain people it is not the best that can be offered in sonic performance. The high end can learn a lot from the convenience and ease of use, I am sure.

Haider

[jarcher]

Yes indeed. There is a lot of logic in what you are saying. We are sensing a lot of hard core resistance from a shrinking group of people who as you say, tend to be older. Tackling the indifference of the younger music listeners (under 40s) is the challenge. As great as Sonos is for what it is and I would certainly recommend it for certain people it is not the best that can be offered in sonic performance. The high end can learn a lot from the convenience and ease of use, I am sure.

Haider

Live long & prosper us over 40s then!

I have haven't spun any CDs since I can remember, and don't own a CD player anymore, but I can see the appeal vs a lot of alternative digital player hardware that's often buggy and/ or hard to set up.

 While I wouldn't use a Sonos for more than casual listening, I can see where it's good GUI and relatively easy implementation / expansion is very appealing. And those factors vs sound quality rule for most. Though having been to an electronics retailer lately, I can tell you that most of the portable and convenience / lifestyle systems sounded a lot worse than the Sonos.

[haiderSonneteer]

Live long & prosper us over 40s then!

 Though having been to an electronics retailer lately, I can tell you that most of the portable and convenience / lifestyle systems sounded a lot worse than the Sonos.

Having survived a few years beyond 40 myself I am with you on the boat and paddling.

Yes, it is the job of people like me to produce a viable alternative that at the very least maintains the performance of the now cumbersome old school equipment and make it accessible and convenient whilst at the same time be taken seriously enough as a quality premium product.

Haider

[haiderSonneteer]

With gifting season approaching I am getting quite a few requests for CDs from members of my family. Not a single request for an LP, Cassette or MP3.

Is there a thread in this one?

Haider
sonneteer.co.uk

[WC]

I am asking for CDs also. It is something tangible that can be wrapped, which a digital file can not. It can also be readily transferred to a computer based music system, where as an LP is a little more difficult to transfer. New LPs are generally a little more expensive also, but some of them come with download codes for a free MP3 version of the album.

[haiderSonneteer]

Yes indeed. I am ending up with Amazon Autorip MP3s for all the CDs I am buying for others!

Once I give the CD away do I then illegally hold the MP3s or are they mine?

Haider
sonneteer.co.uk

[GreatDane]

I actually miss having a CD player in my system sometimes.

Makes me feel .... nostalgic for the 90's.

[barrows]

No.  Vinyl offers both the potential for superior sound quality, and the luxury of large artwork, and a reliable surface on which to prepare cannabis, etc.  As well as a certain ritualistic quality to its playback: selecting and cleaning the disc, lowering the tonearm, turning it over, etc.  So there are valid reasons for the nostalgia associated with vinyl disc playback.
CDs are only good for ripping and then being stored away.

"Asking people to bring over USB sticks or hard drives just wouldn't work as well."

I find the above statement to be incorrect.  Certainly at my place, bringing over a USB stick or small HD disc with music files on it would work way better than bringing over CDs.  I have no disc spinner in my system, I do have one in the house, but there is no way to connect it up to my main system, and the CD player itself sounds far inferior to the server.
One could bring over a small USB stick with ten albums on it much more easily than ten CDs, and they could be uploaded to my server in a few minutes.

[srb]

Once I give the CD away do I then illegally hold the MP3s or are they mine?

As far as I know, it is not a separate license.  The Autorip MP3 version is licensed to the owner of the physical CD.  It's offered as a convenience perk so you can immediately listen while you're waiting to get the physical media to either listen to or losslessly rip to your library.

If you give away or sell the CD, the Autorip MP3 file either goes with it or should be deleted, if you want to abide by the copyright laws.

Steve

[RDavidson]

Yes indeed. I am ending up with Amazon Autorip MP3s for all the CDs I am buying for others

Once I give the CD away do I then illegally hold the MP3s or are they mine?

Haider
sonneteer.co.uk

Don't keep mp3's. They're just slowing progress and I wish they would just go away. At a time when hard drive space was expensive and sparse, I could understand their purpose. But now, hard drive space is cheap and plentiful on nearly anything that can play a digital music file. Mp3's serve very little purpose anymore and are worth about their weight in their lossy code.
Sorry for the rant. I'm 37. I HATE mp3's and still have a dedicated CD player and still buy CD's. I'm waiting for more devices like the Sony HAPZ1ES to be more plentiful and hopefully cheaper. I'd probably get the Sony if it had a digital input or two and a digital output. I have a DAC fully capable of playing all the high res formats, but I don't want a clumsy and noisy computer in my system. I want a purpose built machine. The Sony is very close to that ideal. Even if I had the Sony, I'd probably still buy some CD's because some music I like won't be found as a high res download, and I like having the physical media for reasons already mentioned. With all that said, I'd like to add that the Sony would be entirely perfect if it also had a disc drawer, so it could directly rip discs and/or just play them......but I can understand the decision to leave ripping duties to people's computers.

[Kenneth Patchen]

I'm already nostalgic for all the money I've spent on cds. I have a couple of thousand cds. Obviously, my nostalgia especially extends to that mad, infrequent MP3 purchase as well. I can fondly recall when that money was just little coins running around like hooligans, the little scamps.

Funny, I don't feel that way about vinyl purchases. And I have lots of vinyl.

[Bemopti123]

I call CDs a medium in order to archive music, sounds.  In this age where convenience trumps it all, my CD transport, a 47 Laboratories unit is relegated to a B system, that plays music, stories to my children when they go to sleep.  It has been a long time since I sat down to listen to a CD player on its own.   CD compilations, have not been made for at least 3-4 years.  All the music files I play, have been extracted from my own CDs and now they live forever on my MBP and its separate files.  My Iphone has become the biggest archive for playable music and it has replaced the function of my 6 CD charger in my car.  That is the way things are playing out.  Of course, most of the CDs I own, I have never sold and some are rare today. 

Until digital media servers are crash proof, I would rather keep my physical media around. 

[Guy 13]

Hi all.
I wish all mediums could co-exist at the same time and forever.
I still have the following LP, CD, VHS, Hi8, DVD, audio cassettes and others...
I have LPs that are 50 years old,
I am not sure I could keep music on HD that long ???

Guy 13

[Phil A]

I am not sure I could keep music on HD that long ???

Guy 13

Guy - most probably not - http://www.extremetech.com/computing/170748-how-long-do-hard-drives-actually-live-for

I got rid of LPs just over 30 years ago.  The main reason being is that perhaps except for about 40 audiophile things (like MoFis), much of the collection was played on really poor equipment that was not in good shape when I was young.  So it was not a difficult choice.  Between the LPs and 45s, I was able to get over 70% of the cost of an Adcom CD player.  For several years, I did miss my analog rig.  However over time as digital got better, that receded and I have no regrets today.  Still have CDs, DVDs, LDs, DVD-As, SACDs, Cassettes (many of my audiophile records I recorded as soon as I got them) and probably a few VHS tapes.  Have not played a LD or tape in probably 5 years and don't play discs that often with most things in digital format (this winter I have probably about 30 DVD-As left to burn), I don't play discs all that often.  I was content using an HDMI audio de-embedder with an Oppo player (getting 24/88.2 from SACD and 24/192 from DVD-A) into the DAC but saw the handwriting on the wall and bit the bullit and went to file playback.  I probably will at some point take the music server and hard drives to a spare system and go to a network player (which with attached storage will give me the music plus one back-up in addition to what I've backed up - although not in the best order as I was rushing to finish before a move).  I moved that way with some reluctance as it is nice to have media with artwork in front of you (and I missed that lots going from LP to CD).  So the evolution of my system was more or less done both for changes in technology and ease of playback (and relief a media storage problem).  If I could have a large walk-in closet the size of a bigger than average room adjacent to the system, I probably would prefer physical playback and might even get back into LPs.  As it is, most of my media is in racks in a spare bedroom closet and probably in a few years I may be storing some of it in boxes in a closet (next to my box of cassette tapes.

[barrows]

Guy: for sure it would not be reliable to keep a single hard drive with music files on it for fifty years.  But, what one does is keep back up copies of that drive, and occasionally, replace the drive in the music server and reload the files.  One can store back ups at home, and also in cloud based storage.
The files which I have ripped from CD I do not worry anout too much, as I can always re-rip direct from the CDs.  When I download high resolution files, I make sure to keep a few copies of them around, so I always have at least two back up copies.
While this might sound a bit complicated at first, once one gets used to it, it is very simple indeed.  And having all of my music accessible from an Ipad at my listening position is quite handy.

I suspect we will see more and more Ethernet DACs, and Ethernet streamers with digital output (like the Sonore Rendu and Auralic Aries), especially as it will not be long before everyone has a local network at home.  The Ethernet streamer approach is great for someone who does not want a server with a spinning HD (although fear of a good server is rather irrational, they do not produce more noise than a typical CD player), in their audio rack.  With the streamer, the storage (NAS) can be somewhere else in the home, and just a small totally silent, Ethernet Renderer box (or Ethernet DAC) is in the audio system itself.

[maxboy00]

It, at times, seems certain that stand alone CD players are on there way out as downloads and streaming continues to expand to all forms of media. And people are also becoming less patient to sort thru vast CD collections to find a "certain" CD this has happen to me too many times to count. But none the less my stand alone CD/DAC player is not going anywhere. I have warmed up the idea of using a music server , someday, to make finding some Cd's easier, but will continue to spin Cd's. This is not being nostalgic nor is it being stubborn to the reality of the future of media formats, I simply enjoy using my CD player and plan to do so for a long time.