[Dan Banquer]

For those who are interested there is a new article on speaker cable measurements at Audioholics.com.
        d.b.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/speakercable2p1.php

[ctviggen]

As a former engineer, I like this kind of article.  That is, until I actually replace cables in my system.  Then, I can hear differences.  This is sad, but true.  It's sad because I can't measure or explain the differences, but -- to my ears -- these differences exist.

[Dan Banquer]

Hi Bob: You will note  the inductance and capacitance of these cables. Also note that we will have a series inductance and a shunt capacitance. The series inductance is in series with the speaker crossover, and the shunt capacitance is across the speaker crossover. As we add more reactance either in series with the crossover or in parallel with the crossover than the result is a change in frequency response of the speaker.
  Hope this helps;
           d.b.

[DVV]

Hi Bob: You will note  the inductance and capacitance of these cables. Also note that we will have a series inductance and a shunt capacitance. The series inductance is in series with the speaker crossover, and the shunt capacitance is across the speaker crossover. As we add more reactance either in series with the crossover or in parallel with the crossover than the result is a change in frequency response of the speaker.
  Hope this helps;
           d.b.

And that's just inductance - then there's capacitance which will also modify the frequency response, and in some cases, possibly even destabilize a lesser amp (I have seen/heard this happen twice), and of course, pure impedance.

So what Dan says is the easy way out; in real life, things tend to be VERY complex with all sorts of RLC interactions.

But right now - who cares? I drive some tomorrow and by the end of the day, I should be sitting on the shore of the Aegean sea, carelessly sipping a cold drink and watching the peaches on the beaches.

See y'all after August 20!

Ciao,
DVV

[TheChairGuy]

Lucky European bastard   ...getting three weeks vacation off in August.

No wonder us Yanks are so hot and bothered by everything.  

Have a good time  

[ctviggen]

Makes sense!  I see that the impedance (I'm speaking of the RLC components) change, but they change so small that it's hard to see what effect they have.  For instance, the resistance measurements are measured in milliOhms.  The difference in these cables is less than a few milliOhms per foot.  That seems so small.  For my system, I'm using 12 feet of cable, so I'd have an effect of about 12 feet x 2 mOhms/foot = 24 mOhms.  Does that really make a difference?  Yet, I replaced cables and now find the bass lacking a bit and there's definitely a different sound.

[DVV]

Lucky European bastard   ...getting three weeks vacation off in August.

I am self-employed, m'man, and if you want that kind of a holiday, go private.

And you're a fine one to talk, living in Northern California, by the sea, with the secure knowledge that Bill Gates is somewhere near you.

No wonder us Yanks are so hot and bothered by everything.  

Yeah, I noticed you guys were all strung up. You gotta unwind, m'man, you gotta live a little. Catch some rays of the sun, untangle a bikini or two, hit a few T-bone steaks, that kinda thing.

Have a good time  

I'll do my best, thank you. Going with my family, and feeling real gypsy.

Ciao,
DVV

[DVV]

Makes sense!  I see that the impedance (I'm speaking of the RLC components) change, but they change so small that it's hard to see what effect they have.  For instance, the resistance measurements are measured in milliOhms.  The difference in these cables is less than a few milliOhms per foot.  That seems so small.  For my system, I'm using 12 feet of cable, so I'd have an effect of about 12 feet x 2 mOhms/foot = 24 mOhms.  Does that really make a difference?  Yet, I replaced cables and now find the bass lacking a bit and there's definitely a different sound.

All that, plus some much harder to quantify effects. For example, try throwing a say 10 kHz sine and square wave at say 10V peak-to-peak through several cables, and you'll notice rather different leading and trailing edges. In simplified terms, some cables are "faster" than others. The differences are small, but still there. Go higher up, say 100 kHz, and they become much more visible.

I just saw it happen a few days ago with high purity OFC (copper purity 99.999%) cables when copared to the same, but in monocrystal technology. Same thing with silver cables.

Of course, what we are seeing here is a mix of RLC effects, but with other goodies thrown in as well.

OK, I'm off for the warm seas now - see you guys when I get back.

Cheers,
DVV

[JoshK]

I am not trying to blow air on the fire, I like what the article implies, but from my own experience I still don't believe this is all there is to it.  Seems to me the implication of human hearing is far too simplistic.  For instance it seems whenever there is something above 20K it is neglected. But even though we do not hear frequencies up there we certainly are known to hear their effects on the harmonics which do reside in the audio band.

[Rob Babcock]

I'm a mod over at Audioholics, and I really like the site a lot.  The DeSalle's take a very objectivist view of things (as they have an engineering background).  Most people here have a much more subjective view.  Me, I'm somewhere in the middle- agnostic on many of the hot button topics (tweaks, cables, etc).  I understand a lot of people take the view that "everything matters", while some think not only wire but even amps all sound the same.

The point of the article may have been missed by some readers do to its sheer scope.  It doesn't really draw a conclusion about sound quality (that's coming in the next part), but mostly points out that many claims by the vendors are completely bogus.  One vendor even changed the info on his website after the review (in all likelihood because the AH staff have access to better measuring gear than the cable maker).  Calling someone out on  an inaccurate measurement or claim is not the same as saying it doesn't sound good.

I do hope at least that everyone commenting on the article first took time to read it.

[TheChairGuy]

I am self-employed, m'man, and if you want that kind of a holiday, go private.

And you're a fine one to talk, living in Northern California, by the sea, with the secure knowledge that Bill Gates is somewhere near you.  

As am I; makes it even harder to take time off.

I'm not nearly as stressed as I was inland and overly heated and humidified in Wahington DC.  And, Bill Gates is 800 miles away.  Robert Redford is my neighbor (literally) and as for tech billionaires, we have Larry Ellison and the Google guys about 50 miles away, among others.

You could live here, too...Andre Agassi/Steffi Graf have their house for sale at $24 million   .  Friggin' nuts....housing prices and health insurance make me stressed.

On the speaker cable issue, I have found my hybrid/digital JVC receiver not to give a whit about what speaker cables to use (I finally tried some cheapo Radio Shack 16ga zip cord on it, no difference that I could pick discern).  Most of my previous amp set-ups were relatively slight and benign changes with speaker cable.

Changing out power cables have yieled much more dramatic results (on all set ups, but in particualr the JVC) Rather large changes with the JVC, really.  Perhaps it's not much more than the shielding issue, perhaps there is something more to it, but there are profound changes with each power cord swap on the 'little wonder'.

[lonewolfny42]

Changing out power cables have yieled much more dramatic results (on all set ups, but in particualr the JVC) Rather large changes with the JVC, really  

CG,

Which PC's did the trick....I'm curious ??  Thanks !! [/list:u]

[TheChairGuy]

Somewhere in there I musta' tripped up on acid...I meant IC's were hugely important to the JVC (it has a fixed power cord right now), but that power cords have yielded dramatic results in other set-ups (not sure if it is shielding or something more)...relative to speaker cable changes.

I HOPE/EXPECT a power cord change is one of the missing links with the JVC and look to remedy that situation with Mr. Wayne/Bolder soon...

sheesh - sleep deprived I tell ya'