[Nick V]

I'm looking to spend up to approx $6k on hopefully a pair of speakers to last for the next 10 years.

I haven't made many changes to my systems over the past 8 or so years, but I'm looking to possibly pick up a used pair of AV123 LS6's (under $3k). I've also always lusted after Dynaudio Condifence C2's (approx $6k used) B&W 802d's (approx $6k used) or Focal 1037Be's (approx $6k used).

I'm just wondering if it's a fair comparison? They will be going in my main system (hybrid HT/2 channel) in a large open floor plan (open to dining room and kitchen) living room. The listening area is somewhat defined with a half wall and the front and rear of the room will be treated with wall panels and bass traps, also a large wool throw rug on the hardwood floor.

I currently have a Blue Circle BC24 (80 watts/ch) amp and Integra DTC 9.8 processor with an Oppo BDP 83 as the digital source. I will likely upgrade the 2 channel part of the system to something like a Bryston 4B SST/Modwright Preamp with HT bypass/Separate DAC or Oppo BDP 105 when I buy my new speakers.

The speakers will serve two purposes; to sound amazing and also to look amazing and be conversation pieces. I was thinking of switching over to something like a really nice sound bar or built in speakers to integrate better into the home, but I decided I'd rather just have huge gorgeous speakers that can double as pieces of furniture instead! I currently have a huge sub (Mirage BPS 400) but really like the idea that I could likely get rid of the sub with either of these pairs of speakers (especially the LS6's).

I've been using GR Research Diluceo's in my secondary 2 channel system for probably 6 or 7 years and I know how good Danny's designs can be!

Has anybody heard any of these speakers in the same system, or even in different systems? I've heard all of these pairs of speakers (except for LS6's) but they were all in completely different systems in treated rooms at different high end audio dealers. They all sounded great.

Some input would be appreciated. Are the LS6's in the same league with these giants at half the price?

[S Clark]

I've had a pair of LS9's for several years now, and the LS6 offers basically the same sound (they just have to work a bit harder).  Although I didn't make the 2013 RMAF, I went the previous couple of years and heard most of the higher end systems.  There are some that would likely top the LS6's, but at nowhere near the price.  The LS series are serious speakers, that compete well with all but a very few of the top end systems.  The primary downside is that they need a good sized room and usually require efforts (time and $) for room treatment.  However, once you tame room resonances, they offer genuine high end performance for very little money.
You mention a possible amp upgrade... the LS series likes power.  My 9's respond well to a Moscode HR401 amp and a Dodd pre.
Best of luck with you search for the best sound for your bucks. Your interest in the LS6's is a good start.
Scott
BTW, I've heard classical on the B&W's.  they are very realistic, but not as good as the LS9.  They can't match the dynamics of the line source.

[Cheeseboy]

I have the LS6's and think they are the bargain of the century.   I really like the way they sound.   

I am running them with a Dodd Audio Gen2 Battery preamp with the 6H30DR tube in front of a Digital Amplifier Company Cherry Plus.  This combo sounds very musical.  The DR tube gives the preamp a very smooth presentation by bringing out the bottom octives very nicely.   The Class D amp rules all of those woofers with an iron fist.   The amps from DAC sound very set like and throw a very large soundstage.  Yet they are 380 watts a side.  Finesse and balls.   There are others that use the Modwright Preamp with thier LS6 with great success.  As an overall statement I would say a tubed preamp in front of a powerful amplifier is the right combination for these.  Although I would really like to try 150 watts or so of tube power in my new living room. 

If I could do it all over again I would upgrade to the LS9.  The bass is much more effortless.  I think there are some open baffle servo subs in my future. 

I believe there is one AC person here that has owned the Dynaudio and the LS6.  That would be Michaelhifi.  I recall some comments about the dynaudio blowing a tweeter and being less than his expectations in sound quality.   I would PM him directly.

Best of luck to you.

Steve

[Jon Liu]

I'm going to second what S Clark and Cheeseboy said.  There obviously is going to be bias here in this forum that will sway towards the LS.  In the early years I thought of building a system with the B&W 802d, but when I critically auditioned them more and more, I found I didn't quite like their sound.  They were too lean sounding to me.  Weird, despite their massive size, they sounded lean... to me at least.  As Scott said, classical sound wonderful on the B&W, but my style of music is not limited to only listening to classical.  I heard some hard rock and heavy metal on those speakers and was unimpressed.

Now go with the LS-6 or LS-9's and you are going to get a completely different experience all together.  The speakers are expansive and smooth.  Not only that, but they are the most versatile speakers I've ever used.  You throw classical at it and it gives you an amazingly serene experience; you throw Anthrax, Metallica, and it handles it in spades; you throw anything in between those genres and you get an incredible experience; what's more, you throw movies at it and real power and dynamics of these speakers just begin to show their true strength.  The level of speed/quickness from the LS are bar-none to what I've heard.

I've owned my LS-9's for nearly 5 years and really can't imagine another set of speakers in my system for a long time to come.  The LS-X that Danny had in his room at RMAF this year have been the ONLY speakers I've desired since I got the LS-9's, just because it marries the two kinds of speakers that I most wanted together (My LS-9's with Open Baffle design).  But then again the price for the LS-X would be around 10x what I paid for my LS-9's, so there's that trade-off, too.

If you have a chance, though... make sure to try auditioning each of the speakers (if possible) before you make any further decisions!

[Cheeseboy]

Ok as long as we get trash the B&W products I'm all in.  The 802' hurt my ears and give me gas.  Nuff said.  I would take them off the list.   Put the GR Research Super V's on the list.  Completly different approach than the Line source but man are they sweet sounding. 

[Jon Liu]

lol, Cheese, I wasn't intentionally trashing B&W because I still like their products.  I think I've been spoiled by GR-Research, among other companies that have opened my eyes a bit more to what is out there.  B&W 802d's are still a beautiful pair of speakers that I still admire whenever I see them in person!

[cujobob]

The line source speakers will certainly be noticeable and will likely be tough to re-arrange should you want to do anything different with your room in the future. They're not all that flexible like many smaller speakers. There's a lot to consider but I don't think mainstream companies offer nearly enough value compared to what many Audiocircle vendors do. I'd go with something from Danny or Audiokinesis most likely if I were you. Very different approaches but both put out crazy good high-value speakers that feature output, uniqueness in design, and great sound quality. The only thing that makes it tough to recommend line sources is that a person needs to realize what they're in for ahead of time. You can't really do it on a whim and expect great sound.

[Jon Liu]

Definitely agree with cujobob.  If you've not experienced line sources, you will want to try to.  They are a different experience.  Then again, the LS-6 and LS-9 are even more of a different experience within the line source classification (in my opinion).

The LS-6 and LS-9 are very imposing speakers (visually), though.  I have to keep my grills on them because I have two young kids, but with the grills on it makes them slightly less imposing.

[Nick V]

The only line arrays that I've experienced were mega-buck McIntosh line arrays with a lot of tiny drivers with separate sub arrays in a fully treated room with mega-buck McIntosh mono amps and gear. The 'wall of sound' effect was incredible as was their output with tight, visceral (kick you in the chest) bass. I also remember being astonished by their delicacy and low level detail retrieval.

This was likely a $100k + setup. I suppose I'm not really sure how the ls6 would compare.

[Ric Schultz]

Why don't you build some LS6 or LS9 open baffle speakers (essentially the same as what Danny showed at RMAF). 

LS9X:
6 12 inch servo woofs = $1100
2 servo amps = $800
24 M165NQ/16 woofs = $2600
18 Neo 8 pdrs = $1800
xover parts and wire = $300
Total is $6600 plus wood

If you just used two 12 inch servo subs in sealed boxes for bass then subtract $700 from above = $5900

LS6X:
Same as above but using 8 woofs and 6 mids on each side subtract $1500 from above = $5100 or $4400 with just 2 servo sealed subwoofs.

Since the woofs are probably more sensitive than the Neo 8s then you have a choice of using a great resistor combo to pad the woofers at speaker level(power Caddock plus nude Vishay bypass) or use bi-amping.  Bi-amping would be best.  If you use an Ncore or Job 225 on the woofs you can just put a 2 resistor pad before the woof amp to match volumes with the tweeter amp.  Use a great tube amp on the Neo 8s.....some Dodd jobbies or whatever.  The Ncores or the Job 225 would control the woofers so hard it would send you out the back of the house on big transients!  A friend uses the Ncores on 2 15 inch woofs on an open baffle and crosses over to a compression driver in a waveguide at 850hz driven by 2 watt tube amp.  Simply killer sound!

Of course, an open baffle speaker requires some space behind them.  But for $4400-$6600 plus wood, finishing and another amp.....well, simply an incredible bargain.  We are talking as good as what Danny showed....absolutely.  Basically the same thing.  The only difference is that the woofers he used in that speaker were custom made with lower sensitivity so they would match the line source of Neo8s without having to pad them.  But basically the same design. I think Danny should offer such a kit!  If not, you can surely buy all the parts from him and I am sure he will sell you the xover parts you would need.

The woofs could be mounted on the baffle so that every other one was inset so they would lay on top of each other slightly.  Another option would be to have the woofs cut off on the top and bottom like his custom ones are.   This to make them closer together for better coupling and a less tall line source that would match the Neos. 

What I just described would keep you in musical bliss for years and years.  And they would be a killer conversation piece!  You can finish them any way you like. 

[persisting1]

Sure, anyone can buy drivers and mdf, but just throwing them together doesn't mean you'll get a pair of LS-X. I understand what you're saying Ric, but it's easier said than done. There's a reason Danny gets paid for what he can accomplish.

[Ric Schultz]

There is nothing mystical or unknowable about the LS-X.  It is exactly what I stated.  Of course, the xover between the woofers and tweeters is crucial.  Obviously, you would want to use the xover that Danny designed (he is an incredible xover designer).  He is using the xover built into the servo amps,  uses a small cap in front of the main amp to limit the lows and has a super Danny designed xover between the woofs and tweets.  Nothing else is exotic...except the drivers that Danny designed, which you can buy and use yourself.  The baffle that he uses is speced using two pieces of .75 inch medite.  You could use three pieces....you could also use 13 ply birch plywood or bamboo plywood for even more baffle rigidity.  What is so nice about an open baffle speaker is its simplicity.  You don't have to be a speaker designer and know a bunch of stuff about box and port design.  You don't need to worry about having non parallel walls to kill the resonances or filling the box with stuffing, etc.  It is very simple.  You need super rigid baffles that are braced.  Danny has already done the homework.  Just use his design.  He will be happy to sell you the parts. "Throwing something together" is not what I ever have in mind.  I am a perfectionist.  The only way to get great sound is to pay attention to ALL the details.  In this case, the details are pretty simple but very, very time consuming.  And also a very large and imposing speaker and would not be easy to make yourself.  Of course, every major city has woodworkers, CNC machines, finishers, etc. that can help you make your baffles.   Some can do all this themselves.  But it is a serious project, for sure.  It would take hours and hours just to install and wire the drivers and make it look good. 

Another option would be to use an electronic xover and triamp the speakers.  The stock Behringer or Minidsp are moderately veiled but the latest DEQXs are pretty nice and even better would be to use super xover software in a computer and run 6 channels of state of the art DACs afterwords into the servo amps and amps for the mids and highs.   Creative people see many possibilities.

[persisting1]

Of course, the xover between the woofers and tweeters is crucial.

Danny designed xover between the woofs and tweets

These "little" things are what makes the speaker. Again, I understand what you're saying, but if someone actually wanted to deconstruct a speaker and build it themselves, they wouldn't be doing this on a forum Danny actually pays for. They'd be somewhere like a DIY audio site that specializes in that.

Just saying.......Since the LS-X isn't a GR speaker, I highly doubt he'll be able to offer this speaker as a GR kit. That would be amazing if he did so, but I think we all know the answer to this.

[Danny Richie]

Yeah, it would be nice if it were as easy as Ric describes.

The woofers for the LSX were custom build just for that application. I had 30 of them made as samples and flown over. Not only are the parameters unique to that design but the frames are truncated to allow them to be stacked. There currently are no others.

And yes, the design was built for a client. It has yet to be determined what will be done with the design. A production run will be quite costly.

[mpauly]

Any plans to offer kits for any of your line array designs?

[Danny Richie]

Any plans to offer kits for any of your line array designs?

LS-6 and LS-9 kits are available.

[mpauly]

LS-6 and LS-9 kits are available.

Thanks.  I didn't see them on your site and thought you had stopped offering them.  Any info on pricing?

Have an opportunity to pick up a pair of LS-6 in piano black, but always wanted to build my own with some sort of exotic veneer finish.

[S Clark]

Thanks.  I didn't see them on your site and thought you had stopped offering them.  Any info on pricing?

Have an opportunity to pick up a pair of LS-6 in piano black, but always wanted to build my own with some sort of exotic veneer finish.

If you do decide to build a LS, I've got most of a set of LS9 cabinets cut out and in the garage.  Danny knows me well, ask him.

[Danny Richie]

The LS-6 kit is $1,995 and the LS-9 kit is $2,695.

[jeffx]

Anybody have or make flatpacks for the LS-6?