RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE

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Pez

RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« on: 12 Oct 2013, 03:30 pm »
Coming soonish... Tyson fell back asleep so now I'm waiting for his ass.  :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :duh:

liddown

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Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #1 on: 12 Oct 2013, 04:32 pm »
I was pretty impressed with new Double Bass speakers.... Would be interested in your opinion...




Bob in St. Louis

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Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #2 on: 12 Oct 2013, 04:38 pm »
Check out the Vapor room, if at all possible. I keep hearing his name.

mamba315

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Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #3 on: 12 Oct 2013, 04:54 pm »
Is Audiokinesis on your list this year?

catastrofe

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Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #4 on: 12 Oct 2013, 05:04 pm »
Check out the Vapor room, if at all possible. I keep hearing his name.

+1

seadogs1

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Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #5 on: 12 Oct 2013, 05:13 pm »
+1000 on the Vapor Room especially the Joule White!!!

EdRo

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Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #6 on: 12 Oct 2013, 05:51 pm »
  :banana piano:NIMBUSNIMBUSNIMBUSNIMBUS :thumb:

Tyson

Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #7 on: 12 Oct 2013, 05:51 pm »
PEZ: Sorry for the delay. We went over to the Hyatt and they have absolutely zero wireless reception there. We were told they basically built the conference room inside a faraday cage to force people who rent the rooms to use their data package upgrade. Total bullshit. Nice hotel, way better rooms but that kills it for us if they don't fix that problem in the future we literally cannot do live coverage.














Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – Nimbus Side - Vapor room, first of day 2!!!  Had to take a nice  4 minute walk to get from the Marriot to the Hyatt, but it was worth it – these speakers are freaking BEAUTIFUL.  The 211 amps are also the best looking ones I’ve seen at the whole show.  And I LOVE these types of amps.  I have all SS in my system right now (First Watt F5’s, which I built myself), but I am having serious tube envy at this moment.

Oh, they Hyatt is MUCH nicer than the Marriot – it gets my vote for moving RMAF here next year.  Unfortunately there is zero cell reception or wifi here, so if the show were moved, then our ability to post live would be killed.  And that would be the end of RMAF coverage from us.  And that makes me sad.  So, yay Marriott.

And the Vapor room is HUGE, so these speakers and the system can really breath.

One thing – listening to the Nimbus, the room has a bass mode that is present in every seat I tried, except the very first row.  Luckily the sound from the first row is tremendous. 

Saint-Saens Violin & Piano – Giant soundstage and a very “visual” real presentation of the audio event.  Equal to the best at the show.

Handel Aria – Listening to this LOUD and even at high levels it maintains smooth coherency and musicality.  I usually hate, hate, hate ceramic cone based drivers.  Not here.  I’m not sure how they tamed the breakup I always hear with Accuton in other speakers, but they’ve done it here.

Mahler Symphony – IMO, this is the track where this system really shines.  Big powerful speakers in a room well treated with GIK Acoustics.  Oh, hahahaha, I just realized that some of the “art” I thought was just stupid signage is actually GIK Treatments (the Guitar silksreen is absolutely top quality).  Did I mention that EVERY vendor at RMAF should not only treat their rooms, but they really ought to use GIK.  Having art that doubles as badass room treatment is FAR better than the “carpet on a wall” aesthetic offered by most of the other guys.

Civil Wars – I think this might actually be the clearest, most transparent I’ve heard this track at the whole show.

Tom Waits – OK, the only downside here (and it is very slight), is it emphasizes the rough edges a bit here.  These are not warm speakers, so if that is your cuppa, look elsewhere.  On the other hand, much more impressive is their absolute, complete transparency into the recording.  If you want to hear EVERYTHING on your music collection, then this is it.

Hey, normally I don’t like dead neutral speakers (I like a slight warmth), but just like with the TAD room, the other things these speakers do is so impressive that it pretty overrides that for me. 


Jason’s Notes

Vapor audio room.
Wow the nimbus speakers are an incredible sight to behold. Very imposing and sexy as hell. The tube amps. Simply the sexiest I have seen at the show as well. I actually took a spec sheet! That never happens. :P

The Saint Saens, nice flowing sound with gorgeous seductive and sweet sounding despite the dissonance? Through it all the detail and transient attacks of the violin remain intact.

Handel piece- is tear jerking and emotionally charged. The dynamic detail shine through unapologetically.

Mahler is grandiose  as it should be. Brooding and menacing. The reason I mention that is because I think this is the first system where that actually sounded effortless!

TCW big presentation. These soundstage reminds me of a big horn setup. HUGE imaging MONSTER soundstage these scale very very effortlessly and then keep going well beyond what seems possible.

Walk Away very very big presentation. Pace, rhythm and groove. Again a larger than life soundstage and imaging.

I guess I just love the sound of a big triode presentation. It is impressive that these giant speakers are being driven by a 845 to levels that one would expect from a giant super expensive solid state amp, yet sounding like a SET very warm sounding without the bloat.  A well treated room at high volume levels, with SET. This is why I come to these shows. This is a top 4 contender at the show for sure. 

One last note this room is huge. There's another system in the back of the room that we are going to come back to tomorrow. The reason being Ryan informed us that they are trying to work out getting a different dac with the gear. We wanted to give this system a listen when it was ready to go.



Tyson

Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #8 on: 12 Oct 2013, 05:57 pm »






Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – Scaena room is up next.  Wow, 2 excellent rooms in a row – starting off day 2 right!  I’ve never heard Scaena before, but I know I love ribbon tweeters and I live line arrays.  I love the refined industrial space station aesthetic.  If ever there was a speaker that deserved to be put into a man cave, this is it.

Saint-Saens Violin & Piano – Interesting – for such big speakers, they don’t oversize or blow up the image at all.  Just 2 musicians playing, right over there…

Handel Aria – Captures the beauty of the presentation nicely.

Mahler Symphony – Scales like crazy.  Yes, those huge ass subs really to matter.  They don’t overwhelm or thump, but when the music gets big, they fill the room.

Civil Wars – The chorus of this track says “I wish you were the one that got away”.  I’m starting to wish that this track would go away.  Plus it sounds really sterile on this system.

Tom Waits – Well, I was enjoying the track until the guy running the room came over and talked over the music, telling me how bad our music selection was.  Then I got a lecture on what dynamic range is, and how the Tom Waits portion of our selection was too compressed.  Dick.  Too bad, I was digging the room before that happened….


Jason’s Notes

Scaena room

Wow another way out there over the top design like the vapor room, but a completely different approach and execution.

Took photos and not in a sweet spot so I won't comment too much on Tyson's music selections. I will say in general it sounds different than the vapor room (duh) in the scene that it is more solid state sounding (yes I know it's an AR amp) that's not a bad thing it's just not the tubey deliciousness I prefer.

In the sweet spot now. TCW Ok now what I said before is more or less confirmed. This to my ears is what a lot of high end systems strive to sound like. Meaning very 'correct' not doing anything wrong, but simultaneously sounding a bit sterile, scrubbed down and a bit stripped of emotionality. For having 6 subs connected to 6 crown amps I find myself wondering where's the bass slam?

The Tom Waits track was... Uninspired nothing about it made me think this is something that makes me want to groove. The vendor in the room took the time to come up to us and let us know how bad this track was and not a good selection for judging a system like this. I disagree. I've heard this song sound AMAZING on systems that cost a fraction of this system. I just think this is the kind of system that kills music that isn't 100% fanatically mixed and recorded. No it's not the most dynamic recording but what's there is beautiful. Word to the wise vendors. Don't be a rude about people's music and try to explain away why it sounds bad. I can say from experience that it is not the music I selected that is causing the terrible sound. 

seadogs1

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Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #9 on: 12 Oct 2013, 06:01 pm »
As long as you're there how about the Vapor Joule White? Thanks! I'm trying to get a good take on it.

Tyson

Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #10 on: 12 Oct 2013, 06:11 pm »
Wilson Room

OMG, the absolutely freaking best sound at the whole show.  No, check that, best sound of any show ever!  Best sound in the whole entire world, I mean entire universe!!!!!! 

But I have to warn you, only the cool kids are allowed access to this room.  Press badges seem to the be magical, golden key to unlock the doors to this mythical realm of audio bliss. 

No, not really.  We were actually turned away at the door and informed that "structured" presentations were being done and allowing us in 5 minutes after a demo started was on par with showing up late to the ballet.  NO WILSON FOR YOU!!!!!!!!  Wow, 2 dickish rooms in a row.  Amazing.

Tyson

Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #11 on: 12 Oct 2013, 06:40 pm »


Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – Got to hear the little guys today.  On the small system in the back of the room.  After the debacle of the Scaena room, it’s pretty awesome to come to a room run by genuinely good people. 

Didn’t get a chance to listen to our CD, but the music playing sounded very good.  Even though it was jazz.  And I hate jazz.  But these speakers made me a convert to loving jazz in the space of 5 minutes!  Well, no, not really.  But I will say that they sounded great.  Kept the major strengths of the Daedalus house sound – beautiful tonality and amazing musicality.  They are pushed too far up against the wall to make much comment on the soundstaging or stuff like that.



Jason's Notes

This is a classy look little system. Compared to the big system you aren't getting the bass depth but what is there is great very much the house sound of Daedalus. If setup in a proper space rather than tucked away in a corner most of these issues would probably disappear. Nice little setup.

Pez

Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #12 on: 12 Oct 2013, 06:56 pm »
I was pretty impressed with new Double Bass speakers.... Would be interested in your opinion...





On our list

Tyson

Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #13 on: 12 Oct 2013, 07:22 pm »








Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – DEQX room.  Nicely done up, curtains all around the front of the room creates a nice ambiance.  This system is of course the one that can do electronic crossovers, speaker correction, driver correction, room correction, and phase correction in real time.  I actually used to own one of these bad boys.  They work, and work well.  Switching between the processor and not the processor is pretty jaw dropping.  No CD player here, but some decent violin music going on.  Bluegrass.  Great room last year, great room again this year.  The beauty of the DEQX unit it really helps to overcome some of the inherent shittiness of the RMAF hotel rooms.  Oh, OK, I will just say it - the DEQX makes the YG Acoustic speakers sound good!  ANY product that can do that is a downright miraculous!


Jason's Notes

From the back row seat with someone sitting directly in front of me blocking the left speaker and someone sitting in front of the right speaker it sounds surprisingly good!

In sweet spot now: Switching between the deqx and without it it was pretty obvious when the deqx was in the mix. More coherent more lively and better lock on imaging and sound staging.  Wish we could listen to our own stuff because I'm liking what I've hearing
« Last Edit: 31 Oct 2013, 06:09 pm by Tyson »

Tyson

Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #14 on: 12 Oct 2013, 07:44 pm »





Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – Back in the Selah room today – they have the Ottavo’s set up.  And as cool as the curved line arrays are, the Ottavos are simply more beautiful to my eye.  The wood finish is amazing, among the very best at the show.

Saint-Saens Violin & Piano – Hey, ceramic drivers that don’t drive me out of the room, yay!  Second time today – This track can just kill you ears on a lot of systems.  Really well done here.

Handel Aria – Sounds excellent.  On a couple of the notes, the room gets overloaded, but a bit of room treatment would certainly clean that up very nicely.

Mahler Symphony – I don’t know how they do it, but they scale the music to a larger dimension than the room itself.  That is tres coolio. 

Civil Wars – Jason’s music sounds good.  Interesting, when I move out of the sweet spot, the sound quality does not drop off all that much.  These speakers sound better across a larger listening area than anything else I’ve heard at the show. 

Tom Waits – Oh yeah, junkyard dog mean.  Love it.  Sounds great even off axis.  Sound is MUCH better today than yesterday.  Not sure if it’s the speaker change, or the fact that we’re actually listening to an actual CD instead of Spotify :P  Actually, I’ve been in the Selah room many times now, and I think this year is their best overall sound. 

Jason's Notes

As I'm sure Tyson has already posted we were here yesterday but with the other curved back speakers. (Sorry I'm terrible about remembering the infinite names assigned to speakers) I will say this. They are able to play our music! Right off the bat I am like the fuller sound of these. Way more refined IMO.

A little overblown on the Handel but room treatment would solve this likely of which there is none. Imaging and sound-staging is pretty damn good!

The Mahler is pretty good as well! Again the room is hurting this system due to the overhang and lack of dynamic control.

One who got away. Very very good imaging again. Very 3d. This is one of those setups that I can tell is excellent, but the lack of treatment underlines how important it is to have that at these shows it could be soooo much better

Waits has good pace, but likes a little of that believability that really gets my tow tapping.

Overall way better than yesterday. Just need treatments.

hifial

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Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #15 on: 12 Oct 2013, 07:46 pm »
Tyson and Pez. Thank you for all your efforts and great coverage of the RMAF for all of us not able to make it.

If you can I would love to hear your feedback on a few rooms.

The Grimm Audio room has new to the US market their all in one speaker, power amp and DSP system (it even comes with the cabling). It is an all new design that uses the Hypex Ncore amps and Grimm's Studio DSP. It is very well regarded in other parts of the world.

The exaSound room and their DAC's.

The Merrill Audio room with the TAD E-1 speakers.

I know there is one more but I can not think of it right now.

Again thank you for all your efforts.

Tyson

Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #16 on: 12 Oct 2013, 08:01 pm »











Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – Every year that Fritz makes it to RMAF, we love his room.

Saint-Saens Violin & Piano – From the middle seat the bass sounds a bit hollow.  Moving to the front row now.  Sounds much better.  That’s the thing with these rooms – you really should listen to the system from at least a couple of different seats.  Jason and I do that, in every room. 

Handel Aria – Wow, just drips with emotion and beauty.  Best I have heard this track on any system in the entire show.  Really beautiful.

Mahler Symphony – Great tonality on that opening horn call.  Scales surprisingly well, if not at the same level as some of the giant speakers.  But still quite respectable.  Really nice depth of soundstage – the cellos are coming in from way back.

Civil Wars – The LS 7/R’s (I have to have a talk with Fritz about his choice in speaker names….) these are so inherently beautiful that it actually allows me to enjoy this track.  If you are interested in actually listening to MUSIC, then these are the speakers for you.  No muss, no fuss, just quietly do their thing superlatively.

Tom Waits – What a nice, big, fat sound.  Not fat like the Walmart shoppers, but fat like a juicy tube amp.  And that’s being driven by a super tiny little integrated amp.  Not THAT’s impressive.  Great room, as always.


Jason's Notes

Always a great room to come to and this year is no exception. The sign on the door got a chuckle from me. The sound is sweet and easy going.

The Saens was great but lacked the bite that I know is there from my experience in the other rooms. Yet all the other refinement was present.

Handel soulful and true to the emotion of the performance. But in a sort of editorialized way. Some of the detail just not as forward. Still there, but more laid back.

Mahler

TCW wow laid back and very warm sounding. Great body to vocals and instruments. Lyrics 'I wish I'd never, ever seen your face' remind me of Tyson for some reason. Kick drum is great on this system.

Tom Waits is a bit shouty and yet not edgy enough in this system. Probably due to lack of treatment again. Though this is the first time it's really been a huge issue with what I'm hearing. Knowing that this system probably doesn't less than 1/10th of the average system cost I think you seriously should check it out.

Tyson

Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #17 on: 12 Oct 2013, 08:23 pm »








Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – The shocker room from last year is back again.  Last year it was a single midrange/high frequency widebander with a bass helper.  Did I mention that I hate widebanders?  And I hate metal drivers even more.  I was ready to literally bolt for the door last year.  And then I listened.  And then I named the room best in show for that year.  So much for preconceptions.  (I also found out later that the drivers are not actually metal, so there).

This year they have a real tweeter in there!  One thing – no room treatments ☹  I am always a bit sad when really good systems are in rooms with no treatment.

Saint-Saens Violin & Piano – Sparklingly beautiful.  Not like a chocolate mousse, more like a effervescent champagne.  It is light, not in the sense of brightness, but in the sense of being the opposite of heavy.

Handel Aria – Surprising that this track does not overload the room, considering the lack of treatment.  But sure enough,  no overload.  I’m not sure how that is physically possible, but there it is.

Mahler Symphony – The one track they fall down a little bit is the Mahler.  They just don’t scale the massive dynamics of this track.  On a positive note, they don’t break up or cause any other nasties.  They just compress the music a little bit.

Civil Wars – Laid back and effortless.  You’d think a speaker with shiny drivers would be bright and upfront, but not hear.  Just an easy musicality.

Tom Waits – His voice sounds like it just in the room with you.  These speakers are amazing for vocals, very, very coherent.  Another great year for Zellaton.  It’s rare that Jason and I add any new vendors to our “must hear” list every year, but these guys have done it.


Jason’s Notes

Zellaton CH room was the one that surprised us last year with their out of this world design that actually works very very well. This year the house sound is back again and despite having 0 room treatment it sounds pretty damn phenomenal. We are listening to knopfer and Atkins and it sounds so easy going yet refined like you wouldn't believe!

Saens beautiful most natural violin so easily presented I just want to listen and not type. 

Handel another heartbreaker. Even off to the side these things image.

Mahler did it again was just listening and forgot to type. Off from center these have the best non sweet spot sound I have heard at the show period.

In the sweet spot the civil wars images even better! Great presentation, very emotional and never overblown despite lack of treatment. This is the kind of room I could easily spend several hours in.

Tom Waits gritty and powerful without sounding harsh. The double bass sounds pretty awesome on this system without being over bearing. How they pull off such balance too to bottom without an ounce of room treatment in beyond my understanding. I just can't quite wrap my head around that. 

Tyson

Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #18 on: 12 Oct 2013, 09:03 pm »














Tyson Notes

General Room Notes – The MA Recordings room is badass every year.  This year, like last year, they have all headphones setup in the room.  Except this year is even MORE headphones.  And even better amps.  I’m listening to Beethoven’s violin concerto on the Abyss headphones and the Woo 234 monoblocks.  Sounds pretty good during the orchestral introduction.  But when the violin comes in, it just melts me with emotion. 

Now listening to Stax headphones via the Woo Audio WES.  Same Beethoven track.  The orchestral parts sound better than on the 234’s and Abyss.  With the Stax, the violin sounds very good, but doesn’t melt me like the other setup.

Great room again this year, tons of great music and everyone should drop by here.


Jason’s Notes

What can I say about the MA recordings room that I don't say year after year? Great setup. A lot of fun stuff to look at and or buy and this year Woo audio is sharing the room which means out of this world headphones and headphone amps. My favorite was the one with the Stax headphones. Wow could that system sing! Very dynamic too. Great room as usual.


Tyson

Re: RMAF 2013 Day 2 - Tyson and Pez Coverage LIVE
« Reply #19 on: 12 Oct 2013, 09:11 pm »
Pez: So that's the end of our scheduled rooms. We are going to sort of walk around and do our own thing now. Nt sure where we will start but right now we are taking a break for a late lunch.