Rook's A/V-3 build

greenklein · « **on:** 15 Sep 2013, 03:27 pm »

Thanks to advice of Danny and many others on this forum I am the proud owner of a box with a bunch of pieces of cool looking electronic stuff in it. I am going to try to make something of these pieces and will hopefully take some notes on my progress. Along the way I am sure I will have a ton of questions. I have learned quite a bit from other build threads and I expect to learn much more through this process.

Fortunately I have a friend that has a nice wood shop, so I was able to get all of the pieces cut on his SWEET table-saw. I did buy one tool for this little exercise...a router. I've always used my brothers on other projects (dresser, end tables, night stands), but I decided to go ahead and get my own. I made a circle jig borrowing heavily from lacro's build http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108371.0 and the concept behind the jasper. I probably should buy one, but decided to try it out and save a little money. Of course with all of the trial and error that went into it... well, it was fun trying to figure it out anyway. I will post some pics of this thing once I have it dialed in, just in case someone is interested. So, this brings me to my first question (or 2).

Edit: I took out two stupid questions that had to do more with my measuring abilities than anything of substance...

3. I'm guessing I can cut the brace B half circles out with my jigsaw... It won't be as perfect as using the router, but I haven't figured out a way to use the plunge router for half a circle...

Thanks for any suggestions (or links)!

Todd

Captainhemo · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Sep 2013, 05:07 pm »

Hey Todd

Cool getting that box of parts isn't it !!

Not sure why the tweeter countersink isn't corresponding to the tweeter flange... in the kits I've built from Danny the counter sink is always pretty much right on. You can always do a test counter sink and tweeter hole to tast fit.

As for the half circle cut outs on the braces. You can just drill your pilot hole for the router pin about 1/8" from the end , that will work.
Another way is to leave the brace a little long, then your pilot hole can be drilled in the exact spot and you can trim to Length after the half circle is cut out

If you do end up buying a circle jig, I'd look at the adjustable one mentined earlier rather than the jasper. I have the jasper and although it works fine it would be nice to have some adjustment .
There has also been some issues with people overtightening the jasper and having the back of the jig break (right behind the mounting screws). I haven't had any issue but I know it has happened quite a bit. I think it is fine so long as those mounting screw are not overtightened.

-jay

mlundy57 · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Sep 2013, 05:12 pm »

Todd,

You want the tweeter to fit flush with the front baffle and without a big gap. If you cut it a little small you can open it up by sanding. The same for the depth of the tweeter flange. However, that can be a real pain. I'd suggest using a scrap piece of MDF and cut a practice hole using your measurements, at least for the flange. Anytime I cut out driver openings I use a scrap piece of MDF to set up and dial in the router.

As for the recess depth you can use the flange itself to set the depth. Check out this build thread. http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/gr-research/61533-giant-killer-build-6.html Scroll down to post #59. If possible, I prefer to use a large enough bit so I get the full width of recess plus a little with one setup. Then I only have to reset the router once for the through hole. A word of advice, put a couple of screws through the waste and into your backing piece before you cut the through hole. This will hold it in place when the router cuts through and won't damage the driver opening. Be sure to countersink the screws so the router base passes over them easily.

As for the Brace B, when I cut out a brace like that I cut two out of a piece of material twice as long as the brace is. That way I can cut out complete circles with the router. Then cut the piece in half and I have two braces. I then use either the band saw, scroll saw or jig saw to finish the cuts and a spindle sander to clean everything up. If you use a jigsaw, don't try to cut right up to your layout line. Leave enough room to be able to clean up any tear out caused by the jigsaw. Actually, it's usually a good idea to leave the layout line showing then sand up to the line.

Don't forget to round over the edges of the braces that will be exposed after the cabinet is glued up.

Mike

greenklein · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Sep 2013, 06:49 pm »

Thanks for the hints...just rechecked caliper w/ another...a bit off. Looks like I'm the goof.

Plans are correct!

bdp24 · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Sep 2013, 12:48 am »

Quote from: Captainhemo on 15 Sep 2013, 05:07 pm

Hey Todd

Cool getting that box of parts isn't it !!

Not sure why the tweeter countersink isn't corresponding to the tweeter flange... in the kits I've built from Danny the counter sink is always pretty much right on. You can always do a test counter sink and tweeter hole to tast fit.

As for the half circle cut outs on the braces. You can just drill your pilot hole for the router pin about 1/8" from the end , that will work.
Another way is to leave the brace a little long, then your pilot hole can be drilled in the exact spot and you can trim to Length after the half circle is cut out

If you do end up buying a circle jig, I'd look at the adjustable one mentined earlier rather than the jasper. I have the jasper and although it works fine it would be nice to have some adjustment .
There has also been some issues with people overtightening the jasper and having the back of the jig break (right behind the mounting screws). I haven't had any issue but I know it has happened quite a bit. I think it is fine so long as those mounting screw are not overtightened.

-jay

On the Jasper website they are offering the Circle Jigs in Pro versions, made out of a material they claim is virtually unbreakable. The Pro versions cost $10 more than the standard.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Sep 2013, 01:57 am »

Looks like you already received some good advice here. Thanks guys!

greenklein · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Sep 2013, 02:15 am »

Jay and Mike, I haven't had a chance yet to try those suggestions for the 1/2 circle on brace b. I already have them cut, so may try the jigsaw method w/ a little sanding. May also attempt (although unsure how to clamp the pieces) putting the pilot hole 1/8 from the end. I do have some scrap I can play with.

I do have another question...I'm thinking my speakers will be 12-18" from the wall so I am leaning towards putting the opening for the port in the front as others have done. Browsing other threads it looks like I should get rid of brace C, and just swap sides w/ braces D, E, and F. Is this correct?

One more...I laid out my XO pieces on a scrap piece of laminate flooring just to get an idea of the whole thing. What is the protocol for posting pics of the XO before I solder it so I can make sure I actually did it right? Or is that something I should just email Danny? Will the laminate flooring cut to fit on the braces work?

Thanks again for your time.

Todd

mlundy57 · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Sep 2013, 02:58 am »

Todd,

I posted pics of my crossover layout before I soldered it up and received feedback form a number of folks, including Danny.

I don't know about changing the layout to front porting, never done it.

Captainhemo · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Sep 2013, 06:20 am »

Hi Todd
If you think you can get close to 18" from the wall, I'd go rear vent on the TL's. If yo feel it will be closer to 12, front vent may be better although I think I have seen Danny say 12 will work for rear .
The N3's I did are now in a large room at my folks place and they sound great front vented.
If you do decide to go front vented, I did eliminate the brace C . One thing to pay attention to is the distance between the first brace in the TL (brace D if front vented) and the bottom of the lower brace B. You want your cross over to fit in this space, mine didn't as my cross over boards ended up being a little too long' so I had to mount them lower and build some removable access panels, which I guess isn't such a bad thing. Build thread here if interested

As for your half circles and putting the pilot hole 1/8" back from the edge, just secure the cutout with a couple of screws counter sunk so the jig doesn't hit them as Mike suggested Just be sure the screws are in the cutout !! You can then clamp the rest of the base to the work surface.

HTH's
-jay

Danny Richie · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Sep 2013, 03:54 pm »

Quote

I do have another question...I'm thinking my speakers will be 12-18" from the wall so I am leaning towards putting the opening for the port in the front as others have done. Browsing other threads it looks like I should get rid of brace C, and just swap sides w/ braces D, E, and F. Is this correct?

If you can keep them that far out then I'd leave the opening for the TL in the rear.

Quote

One more...I laid out my XO pieces on a scrap piece of laminate flooring just to get an idea of the whole thing. What is the protocol for posting pics of the XO before I solder it so I can make sure I actually did it right? Or is that something I should just email Danny? Will the laminate flooring cut to fit on the braces work?

You can post pictures of the layout, but not the schematic. Even when I post crossover pics for reference I don't post the values of the components. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=83325.msg805156#msg805156

greenklein · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Sep 2013, 07:33 pm »

Jay, I tried your idea of setting the bit at the end of the brace for routing the 1/2 circle. It worked well. I was able to get a couple of clamps near the rear of the brace.

Here are some pics of my homemade circle jig...yes, there was some trial and error, but it has worked well once I got the kinks worked out. It was made out of a piece of laminate flooring I had laying around.

Here are the braces laid out on the side panel. Haven't glued them yet...a few other things to do first.

So, here is my question for the day. If I leave the system where it is in the pic, the speakers are going to be around 12" from the wall (or a bit closer)... I would really like to put the system on the opposite wall away from the traffic, slider, hall etc. but the problem is where on earth do I put the surround sound speakers? Note the goofy recessed wall part of the way up... also on the right is the sliding glass door, and on the left is the hallway. Would speakers such as the AV-1rs work (couch would be on that wall, so speakers would be above where the TV is now...), or anyone else have an idea where to put the Polk Tsi-100's that I have now - that would save a little cash...? The reason I would like to make this decision quickly so I can decided whether to put the port in the front or back. Leaning towards the front if I leave it where it is, but the back if I can put the system on the opposite wall.

Thanks again for all of the suggestions and ideas!

Todd

Danny Richie · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Sep 2013, 07:54 pm »

How tall is the recessed area?

greenklein · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Sep 2013, 09:33 pm »

4.5' above the top of the wall (vaulted end), 2.5' deep

Danny Richie · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Sep 2013, 03:01 am »

Quote from: greenklein on 21 Sep 2013, 09:33 pm

4.5' above the top of the wall (vaulted end), 2.5' deep

Okay, what do you have to either side back there?

greenklein · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Sep 2013, 03:41 pm »

To either side of the TV etc? On the right is my early summer project the sliding glass door, to the left right on the edge of the picture is the hall, entry way area etc.

Thanks for taking the time...

Scott Trebble · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Sep 2013, 03:58 pm »

I'm following this thread closely, as I will be building the same kit soon, and have decided that I need to front port my A/V-3 speakers as well. They will be only 6" or so max from the wall.
If front ported, is it OK to move them even closer, say 2" from the wall?
As I understand it, to front port them, you eliminate the C brace, and reverse the D,E,F and G braces, correct?

Captainhemo · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Sep 2013, 04:38 pm »

Hi Todd
Glad Glad that worked for you . Remember to put a 3/8" roundover on all exposed edges nad both sides of all the braces.
Looking good

Scott. that is what I did . Just eliminate brace C ( Danny can tell you for sure if this is necessary) and then flip D,E,F, and G . Be aware of the spcae left between D and the bottom of the lower brace B for crossover ( if I remember correctly it ends up being around 9" or so) , . Just something to be aware of when you're cutting your c/o boards

Also, when it comes time for you guys to put some fill in the areas indicated on the plans, I'd recommend using Acusti Stuff instead of poly fill. I tried both in the N3's and the X LS Encores and the Acusti Stuff sounds better

-jay

Scott Trebble · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Sep 2013, 07:19 pm »

The AcoustStuff is a ridiculous price here in Canada. I was going to go with fiberglass. I don't mind working with it too much

Captainhemo · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Sep 2013, 04:59 am »

Scott,
I'm up here in Canada as well. Shot you a PM a while back but didn't here back from you
Might want to try Bob over at CSS ( Creative Sound Solutions) , he'll sell a bag of acusti stuff for the same price as Parts Express plus whatever it costs him to ship it to you from Vancouver. You'll only need a 1lb bag to do all your speakers

Todd, sorry for kind of straying a bit form your build, will stop and let you get back to it

-jay

Danny Richie · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Sep 2013, 02:42 pm »

Quote from: greenklein on 22 Sep 2013, 03:41 pm

To either side of the TV etc? On the right is my early summer project the sliding glass door, to the left right on the edge of the picture is the hall, entry way area etc.

Thanks for taking the time...

It will take some work, but that inset area can work to your advantage. You can build a false wall up there that is fabric covered and then add a bunch of fiberglass insulation in that area to soak up bass boominess. It will make a nice bass trap.

I was trying to get an idea as to if some A/V-1RS's could be put on the side walls even with the listening position. It sounds like there my not be much room for that.

Mounting the A/V-1RS's on the upper part of that back wall won't allow that design to work as intended as the wall above them will be gone.

You could mount a pair of speaker in that upper area but I am not too sure how good that will sound either. You will be way off axis for them.

Can you post any more pics of that whole area?