[Rick Craig]

Hi Gary,

What was wrong with the 3 drivers and how did you realize they were faulty?

Just curious as my Tyler Linbrook speakers use similar drivers.

Guan

There was an intermittent distortion that only showed up on certain material and wasn't excursion related. It was very unusual and the only Seas woofers that I've ever had exhibit a problem.

[Rick Craig]

Gary,

Does Rick Craig still sell the Exclearray? I was looking for it on his site a few weeks ago and didn't see it. I still want to hear them one of these days.

Mike

The Excelarray is only available as a kit. The crossovers are assembled and the cabinet plans plus woofers are included. The ribbons are purchased directly from Newform.

[mgalusha]

Thanks for the info Rick, most appreciated.

[EProvenzano]

Rick,

How much for the kit with standard parts? and how much with upgraded parts?

Thanks
EP

[Rick Craig]

I didn't see them on Rick's web site.  What Sea's drivers do they use and what Newform tweeter...the R45's?  Does anyone have box drawings and x-over schematics for the true DIY'er?  

I sent and Email to Rick asking for these things but if this is such a good design why not make the information available to anyone who might attempt it even if you don't offer the kit.

-Phil

The woofers are Seas W18E001's and the ribbon is the Newform R45.

[Rick Craig]

Rick,

How much for the kit with standard parts? and how much with upgraded parts?

Thanks
EP

I would be glad to quote prices but for $3,800 I can provide a kit with upgraded parts that will be better than the Excelarray. Six of the same woofers per side and six Fountek ribbon tweeters.  And that includes integral powered 12" subwoofers  

Rick

[Enrico]

I'm puzzled by the fact that only one poster has asked about the 3 bad drivers.

I'm not a sound engineer. I don't have a lot of testing equipment at home. The only way I might realize if I also had 3 bad drivers is if the sound of my speakers suddenly changed for the worse.

I'm not sure I would ever really know if the speakers CAME with bad drivers. How could anyone fiigure this out without doing technical-type testing???

Also, if I was able to somehow find out that a couple of drivers in a line array were bad, doing something about it could be a problem. These speakers are BIG and shipping speakers is always a risk.

How many line arrays have experienced this type of problem?

This seems like a very significant quality control issue to me.

[ooheadsoo]

These are kits.  You put the speaker together yourself.  Quality control problems with the drivers seem to me to be an issue with Seas, not Rick.  And to send it back, you send back the driver, not the whole speaker

There are both advantages and drawbacks to kit building.  If the speaker were a prebuilt preassembled option, I'm sure Rick would check each driver to see that they were working before shipping it out.  I'm not sure how it would be different if you had bought the seas driver from madisound vs. buying it from Rick.

[gme109]

Hi Gary,

What was wrong with the 3 drivers and how did you realize they were faulty?

Just curious as my Tyler Linbrook speakers use similar drivers.

Guan

Hi Guan,

As Rick explained, it was an intermittent distortion that only showed up on certain frequencies. I actually heard the problem many months ago and thought it was the over head track lighting that was making the buzzing sound. It wasn't until I happened to be walking right by the speaker when the distortion was happening, that I discovered the problem. I then replayed that portion of the track over and over again, putting my ear up to every driver.  It was very obvious that the drivers were not up to spec when I replaced them. Although everything sounded pretty good before, afterwards the sound improved dramatically.

I'm still not sure how or why the drivers failed. It is a little unsettling to have 25% of your speakers drivers fail. This is of course no reflection on Rick but seems to be a quality control problem with Seas. I didn't have to send the speakers back to Rick, just the drivers. Replacing each driver took all of maybe 5 minutes.  

Gary

[Brad V]

Rick,

How much for the kit with standard parts? and how much with upgraded parts?

Thanks
EP

I would be glad to quote prices but for $3,800 I can provide a kit with upgraded parts that will be better than the Excelarray. Six of the same woofers per side and six Fountek ribbon tweeters.  And that includes integral powered 12" subwoofers  

Rick

Rick,

If I were you, I'd refrain from saying that the Incredarray is better than the Excelarray, until you can do a side by side listening comparison. According to my discussion with some other speaker builders, they prefer the sound of the Newform ribbons sound to the Fountek ribbons. Even though the Fountek play higher in frequency, doesn't mean that they sound better. I'll have a chance shortly to hear the Incredarray's, so I'll be able to get a better idea of how they sound, however that will be in a different room with all SS equipment.

The Incredarray owner came to hear my system several weeks ago and I believe he was mighty impressed with how they sounded.

Have a great day,

Brad

[Rick Craig]

I'm puzzled by the fact that only one poster has asked about the 3 bad drivers.

I'm not a sound engineer. I don't have a lot of testing equipment at home. The only way I might realize if I also had 3 bad drivers is if the sound of my speakers suddenly changed for the worse.

I'm not sure I would ever really know if the speakers CAME with bad drivers. How could anyone fiigure this out without doing technical-type testing???

Also, if I was able to somehow find out that a couple of drivers in a line ar ...

I test all array drivers that are shipped in both assembled speakers and kits. If there's a defective driver the owner can easily remove it and ship it back as Gary did. If they cannot do that then I do offer on-site service since as you note it would be cumbersome to ship them back for repair.

The problem with these woofers did not show up in the response or impedance tests. I had suspected that the voice coil was rubbing but a physical check did not reveal any problem with that. Even when I shipped them back the Seas representative questioned whether they were truly defective because they could not find anything out-of-spec with their tests. They finally were able to duplicate the problem with high-level frequency sweeps but even then the distortion was very intermittent. I had to listen to several different tracks of music before I found the problem.

As I stated here in my other post this was a very unusual problem and I've adjusted my test procedure to add other steps in the quality control process. I'll also add that these are the only drivers that have needed to be replaced in all of the line arrays that I've sold using the Seas woofers.

[gme109]

I'll also add that these are the only drivers that have needed to be replaced in all of the line arrays that I've sold using the Seas woofers. ...

I believe you Rick. I just don't understand how these kind of things always seem to happen to me? If I had a buck for every time someone told me..." This is the first time we've heard of this problem" I'd have half the money I need to buy the subwoofer that I'm looking at. I must have some bad audiophile karma to work off. Perhaps I was abusive to my electronics in my previous life time.


Gary

[Al Garay]

Is there a simple test I can run to see if my Seas W18E001's have this same defect?

Thanks,

Al

[Rick Craig]

Is there a simple test I can run to see if my Seas W18E001's have this same defect?

Thanks,

Al

It's only present on certain material. If you haven't noticed any obvious distortion then there's no need to worry.

[Rick Craig]

Rick,

If I were you, I'd refrain from saying that the Incredarray is better than the Excelarray, until you can do a side by side listening comparison. According to my discussion with some other speaker builders, they prefer the sound of the Newform ribbons sound to the Fountek ribbons. Even though the Fountek play higher in frequency, doesn't mean that they sound better. I'll have a chance shortly to hear the Incredarray's, so I'll be able to get a better idea of how they sound, however that will be in a ...

Brad,

Having designed both speakers I know better than anyone what their strengths and weaknesses are. For several reasons the Incredarray is a better speaker. If it wasn't I wouldn't be selling it.

You need to keep an open mind before you make a decision about which one you prefer. I would like to know who has compared the Newform vs. the Fountek in an array design and why they feel the Newform is superior.

[gme109]

Brad,

Having designed both speakers I know better than anyone what their strengths and weaknesses are. For several reasons the Incredarray is a better speaker. If it wasn't I wouldn't be selling it.

You need to keep an open mind before you make a decision about which one you prefer. I would like to know who has compared the Newform vs. the Fountek in an array design and why they feel the Newform is superior.

Hi Rick,

Being the designer of both speakers, I'm sure you're aware of the overall performance differences between the two. Like frequency response and efficiency. However you've never lived for any extended length of time with either of these speakers, nor done a side by side comparison. I think what Brad was trying to say is, there may be subtle differences between the two that would lead someone to prefer the Excelarray's over the Incredarray.


Gary

[Brian Cheney]

Gosh folks, if the man says the new speaker is better, it's BETTER!

Haven't heard the Fountek but the Newform ribbon is very good up to 18kHz where it mass limits.  It's single-ended, which is not ideal if you plan to use it down to its 1100Hz cutoff.  It lacks a little sparkle. An array of Founteks should give you about 1/2 octave more treble extension and maybe 4 kHz of LF extension, which is very good for that type of planar driver.

Of course, there's always the Neo 8....

(one of my favorites...remember I didn't say this and I sure as heck didn't do it...)

[EProvenzano]

Rick,

How much for the kit with standard parts? and how much with upgraded parts?

Thanks
EP

I would be glad to quote prices but for $3,800 I can provide a kit with upgraded parts that will be better than the Excelarray. Six of the same woofers per side and six Fountek ribbon tweeters.  And that includes integral powered 12" subwoofers  

Rick

So, are you saying that the Excelarray kit is $3800, not including the ribbons?

Thanks for the clarification.
EP

[Brad V]

Gosh folks, if the man says the new speaker is better, it's BETTER!

Haven't heard the Fountek but the Newform ribbon is very good up to 18kHz where it mass limits.  It's single-ended, which is not ideal if you plan to use it down to its 1100Hz cutoff.  

(one of my favorites...remember I didn't say this and I sure as heck didn't do it...)

I'm not sure what you mean by single ended. If you're meaning 1st order, the ribbon is using a 2nd order.

Also, I wish I had a dollar for everyone who pushing the benefits of how high a frequency a driver will go. Of all the times I've put in the Rives CD with frequencies above 16kHz, only 2 people I know of have heard the 20kHz test tone and the others had blank stares. Besides, when I had the Tact RCS 2.2X, it measured like 2 to 3 db down at 20kHZ. Not only that, but every Tact stock correction, which comes with the unit, rolls off the high at 20kHz at about 5db or more. If you go on the Tact forum and ask anyone if they run the curve flat at 20kHz, I doubt you'd get any who do this.

Have a great day,

Brad

[Brad V]

Brad,

Having designed both speakers I know better than anyone what their strengths and weaknesses are. For several reasons the Incredarray is a better speaker. If it wasn't I wouldn't be selling it.

You need to keep an open mind before you make a decision about which one you prefer. I would like to know who has compared the Newform vs. the Fountek in an array design and why they feel the Newform is superior.

Rick,

I'm not saying which one I prefer. That's not what I took offense to. It was your statement of saying which one was better. You can't make that statement, unless you played them side by side, in the same room, with the same equipment.

Even though you designed them, you only listened to the Incredarray for a few hours and mine for a little longer than that. Also, when you listened to mine back a few years ago, they had inferior components running the, a big Entertainment Center between them, speakers were back up against the wall, just to name a few. Now they sound light years ahead of what they did.

Even if you did a side by side for days on end, you're opinion is your opinion and you should state it as so.

As far as revealing the builders who preferred the Newform Ribbons, I promised them that I wouldn't post who they were.

Have a great day,

Brad