[jhm731]

Has anyone compared the MSB Analog DAC to any of the LampizatOr DACs?

[jtwrace]

No, I've never seen any measurements of them and probably never will.  Although, the cedar plank tongue and groove floor in the Lamp looks great.     I'm sure most insurance companies would love that.   

[wisnon]

I think people want to compare sound quality, not specs.

[jhm731]

I think people want to compare sound quality, not specs.

Correct.

[Geardaddy]

Has anyone compared the MSB Analog DAC to any of the LampizatOr DACs?

Yes indeed.  A kiwi had some variant of a MSB dac and now has a L5 with Duelunds and DSD capability.  It was a lopsided affair, but I will let him elaborate. 

[Geardaddy]

No, I've never seen any measurements of them and probably never will.  Although, the cedar plank tongue and groove floor in the Lamp looks great.     I'm sure most insurance companies would love that.   

Random non-sequitars there Jason.  Obviously, the OP was referring to sonic attributes and not bench specs.  That's your frame of reference which is fine.  Most lampheads view it as a musical instrument, and thus it can be judged by ear only like a Steinway.  For you spec hounds, there seems to be an ever-mushrooming selection of Chinese made pro audio pieces or even cheap DIYish boxes costing a little over $100 that measure better than anything made in recent history.  The Audionote dacs measure like crap, but people seem to hold onto them even in the face of vinyl collections.  The same holds true to Lampizator it seems.

Regarding the cedar planking, that is an Audionote concept derivative done in the name of voicing.  I would allow Lucas to chime in on that issue.   

[jtwrace]

I would allow Lucas to chime in on that issue.   

Yeah, I look forward to reading all about how that helps. 

[Lampizator]

Hi,
the good news are that one customer liked Lampi more than MSB on DSD material, in fact a lot more. And yes, the DAC was tested in UK and full measurement report was published. I will try to dig out the test report. I know it was clean as a whistle, they found nothing, it is a well designed 21st century machine. We do not "create" musicality by making bad design, with lots of THD, lots of interferences, etc. On the contrary, by making the design clean we let the musicality shine through.

[jtwrace]

And yes, the DAC was tested in UK and full measurement report was published. I will try to dig out the test report.

Great, I look forward to the AP or dbScope measurements.  That's what really matters as you say.

[wisnon]

Lampi G3 L4 Serial number 188.



Test Results
This design seems fairly well sorted technically,
as it has a signal-to-noise ratio of 119dB (CCIR
1kHz weighted) and exemplary linearity (see graph)
– indicating the DAC probably uses sigma delta
technology. Harmonic distortion at full level is an
acceptable -71dB almost irrespective of frequency,
while midrange channel separation is a consistent
and respectable 67dB, falling to a just adequate 54dB
at 20kHz. Channel balance is very good, with an
imperceptible difference of 0.038dB at 1kHz.
Intermodulation distortion below full level is well
suppressed, giving -96dB at -10dB. This increases to
-83dB at full level, probably due to the analogue output
circuitry, and is still unlikely to be detected when
listening. Being capacitor coupled there is no DC offset,
and the output level is higher than expected on the
balanced output which meant that the volume control
had to be set to a very low level; in single-ended mode it
was close to normal. The frequency response is flat from
100Hz to 2kHz. It registers -1dB at 20Hz, and falls
off slowly from 2kHz to -1.7dB at 20kHz. This won’t
have dramatic effects, but may have a sonic influence on
some material.

Distortion, THD inc noise 20Hz 1kHz 20kHz
____0_d_B_ _ _____________________-_7_1_ d_B_ ___________-7_1_ _d_B_ __________-_7_2_ d_B______
_C_h_a_n_n_e_l _s_e_p_a_ra_t_io__n_ ____________-_6_7_ d_B_ ___________-6_7_ _d_B_ __________-_5_4_ d_B______
_C_h_a_n_n_e_l _B_a_la_n_c_e_ _re_f_. _0_d_B_ L_ _c_h_ ____ ________________0_.0_3_8_ _d_B_ ________ __________
Intermodulation Distortion
19kHz/20kHz 1:1 0dB output -83 dB
____1_k_H_z_ _d_iff_ _to__n_e_ @__-1_0_ _d_B_ ______ ________________-9_6_ _d_B_ __________ __________
S_i_g_n_a_l_ t_o_ n_o_i_s_e_ r_a_ti_o_ _re_f_. _0_d_B_ _____1_1_3_d_B_ _A_ w__td__ _____1_1_9_d_B_ C__C_IR_ _1_k_ ___9_9_d_B_ _u_n_w_t_d_
Linearity ref 0dB
-70dB -70 dB
-80dB -80 dB
-90dB -90 dB
____-_1_0_0_d_B_ ___________________ ________________-1_0_0_ _d_B_ _________ __________
Maximum output level
____1_0_0_k_ O__h_m__ lo__a_d_ ____________ ________________1_.7_2_ _V_ S_E_ ________3_.4_4_ _V_ b__al___
_O_u_t_p_u_t_ im__p_e_d_a_n_c_e_ _____________ ________________ _______________1_0_0_ _o_h_m_s_ __
_D_C_ o__ff_se_t_ _____________________ ________________L_e_ft_ 0_ _m_V__ _______R_i_g_h_t _0_ m__V__
S_i_z_e_ (_W_,_H_,_D_) ___________________4_4_0_ _m_m__ _________1_3_0_ m__m__ ________3_4_0_ _m_m_____
_W_e_i_g_h_t _______________________ ________________1_0_ _____________k_g_ __ ______

[Geardaddy]

what a relief Winson.  Thx for the data.  Not quite the rarified Chinese air that some are used to breathing but acceptable.....

[jhm731]

Hi, the good news are that one customer liked Lampi more than MSB on DSD material, in fact a lot more.

If your customer listened to the MSB Analog DAC, did it have the optional power base and what was the digital source?

Thanks.

PS- I found this on the Level 5 info:

The list of DAC chips which I tested before selecting my DAC CHIP FOR PRODUCTION:

A LIST OF GOOD DAC CHIPS WORTH THE EFFORT and the ready recipes for Lampizator

PHILIPS
TDA1540
TDA1541, TDA1541A, TDA1541A/R1, TDA1541A/S1 and S2
TDA1543
TDA1545
TDA1549
TDA1305

Burrn-Brown (Texas Instruments now)
PCM58
PCM63
PCM1700
PCM1701
PCM1702
PCM1704
PCM1716
PCM1732
PCM1738
PCM1794
PCM1716

Analog Devices
AD1862
AD1865
AD1852
AD1955

Cirrus - Crystal Semiconductors
CS43xx – all from that series

Wolfson
WM8740, 41, 42

Pioneer
PD2028A
PD2028B

Matsushita – Technics
MN35511
MN35502
MN35500
MN6474
MN66271

SANYO
UPD6376
LC78816

Ess Tech
Sabre32 Reference 90018


AKM
AK4393
AK4395
AK4396

NPC (Nippon Precision Circuits)

SM5872

So, which DAC CHIP did select for the L5?

[capwkidd]

I guess I will throw in my 2 cents worth.... I do not believe there could be a better sounding DAC than MSB. I purchased a MSB AnalogDAC after hearing the old series 3 DAC in someones system. Ok, long after, I used a Perfect Wave DAC in between (which I am not using, and it is for sale, just PM me )..... I really hold no faith that someone makes a better DAC... period...

[wisnon]

Well, try the Lampi and judge for yourself. This is not about belief and faith, its about trialling and preference.
Have a GO and then you will KNOW.

And as for better, you could also try the CAD Dac, TotalDac, VAD Dac, the Calyx Femto dac and even the Auralic.

Try em all and then make up your own mind. Dont try the Lampi first though, or you may just stop there...LoL

[Geardaddy]

capwkidd, if you are grooving on the MSB, hold tight and enjoy.  You don't always have to fall into the OCD vortex that this hobby can create....

[capwkidd]

capwkidd, if you are grooving on the MSB, hold tight and enjoy.  You don't always have to fall into the OCD vortex that this hobby can create....

No problem, I I feel I have my ultimate DAC, now I am saving for my ultimate speakers, Soundlabs

[wisnon]

All is good CapWkidd.

Enjoy and good luck with the speakers.
I am enjoying my gear too.

[jhm731]

I guess I will throw in my 2 cents worth.... I do not believe there could be a better sounding DAC than MSB. I purchased a MSB AnalogDAC after hearing the old series 3 DAC in someones system. Ok, long after, I used a Perfect Wave DAC in between (which I am not using, and it is for sale, just PM me )..... I really hold no faith that someone makes a better DAC... period...

Thanks for the feedback

Did you know that PS audio is working on a DSD DAC?

From Paul's Posts, 11/26/12:

"Over the last few days we’ve been discussing the two main technologies in digital audio today: PCM and DSD.  In my mind there’s no doubt that DSD is superior to PCM – if for no other reason than the fact it is simply closer to analog than anything I have ever heard.  Properly implemented you’re not even aware of its presence and that’s how any piece of equipment or format in a high end audio chain should be: not there.
 
We’ve also learned that nearly all modern 24 bit and higher DACS are essentially PCM to DSD decoders and the final outputs of modern DACS is already DSD in nature.
 
So what’s the future of DACS in the PS Audio ecosystem?  DSD, of course.  We’re right in the middle of a long range, long term project to fundamentally change the nature of the DAC itself from that of a compromised PCM/DSD decoder to a purpose built DSD architecture that also accepts PCM without compromise.  It means getting away from off-the-shelf DACS and chips and heading down a brave new frontier essentially alone – but that’s ok, we kind of thrive on that.
 
The fruits of these labors won’t be enjoyed for quite some time but in the scheme of things it won’t be that long.  Perhaps sometime in 2014 we may see a new breed of product from some of the really great minds we have working on this now.
 
I am delighted to be along for the ride."

[Geardaddy]

everyone and his brother are working on a DSD Dac....

[jhm731]

everyone and his brother are working on a DSD Dac....

Really keen observation.