Rookie needs help choosing a tower build

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mlundy57

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Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #20 on: 29 Aug 2013, 07:29 pm »
Mike,  I have checked out your build thread and it was very helpful.  I am sure I will get back to it when I choose a build.  I may end up choosing the encore builds as well although the thing that keeps me back is the height of the enclosures for the X-mtm's encores.  Are the cabinet plans the same as the classics on the web page?  What would I give up if I just chose to use the X-CS encores with stands?  I think I am where you were a while back.  Originally thinking about the N3's and N3s, but the prices on the encores is very tempting!


Todd,

As I understand it, what you would give up with a pair of X-CS Encores on stands vs a pair of X-MTM Encores is base extension. I'm not sure what the exact numbers are, but the towers will play lower. Maybe Danny will chime in with the specifics.

AS for the X-MTM Encore plans you use the X-MTM Classic plans but use the X-CS Encore plans to get the dimensions for the tweeter opening. The X-MTM Encore plans center the tweeter height at 36" before the base and floor spikes are added. A 3/4" base and 1-1/2" floor spikes (I'm not sure of the length of the spikes in the kit) would center the tweeter at 38-1/4". The height you want depends on your ear height at the listening position. For me that is 39" so I'll need to make by base 1-1/2" thick instead of 3/4".

Then there is the issue of stand price. You will need a solid hefty stand for the X-CS Encores. The speakers will be 20"H x 8-1/2"W x 15-1/2"D and weigh around 30 pounds each. The additional material cost for the towers would be a lot less than a set of stands.

Mike

Danny Richie

Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #21 on: 29 Aug 2013, 07:36 pm »
Good advice there from Mike

And...

Quote
As I understand it, what you would give up with a pair of X-CS Encores on stands vs a pair of X-MTM Encores is base extension. I'm not sure what the exact numbers are, but the towers will play lower. Maybe Danny will chime in with the specifics.

The larger ported MTM cabinet will get you a -3db of 40Hz verses the smaller sealed cabinet that will get you a -3db on the low 60's.

mlundy57

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Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #22 on: 29 Aug 2013, 07:41 pm »
Thanks Danny, that's what I thought I remembered but wasn't sure.

Mike

mlundy57

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Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #23 on: 30 Aug 2013, 03:54 am »
Danny,

What would using the longer flared ports like I used on the X-LS Encore do for the X-MTM Encore? They work really well on the LS by the way.

Mike

Danny Richie

Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #24 on: 30 Aug 2013, 12:37 pm »
Danny,

What would using the longer flared ports like I used on the X-LS Encore do for the X-MTM Encore? They work really well on the LS by the way.

Mike

The flared ports will allow the woofers to be driven a little harder with less port noise.

greenklein

Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #25 on: 30 Aug 2013, 02:38 pm »
Thank you all for the responses.  I have spent more time reading build threads and some more than once (Mike and Jay!).  I appreciate all of the help.  Hopefully I will be able to decide over the long weekend and get an order going next week.  Final three choices (upgraded) X-mtm encore, A/V-3, N3.  All three sound like great options which doesn't make it any easier on a guy.  If anyone has any more thoughts on why I would choose one over the other feel free to chime in! 

Todd

Captainhemo

Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #26 on: 31 Aug 2013, 08:31 pm »
Hey Todd
I think any of your  3  choices are going to be great and it's good that all  3  have a  center  designed for them.
 If budget is  a big concern than obviously the  X MTM Encore or AV3 is going to be  more appealing especially  when  you    consder the cost   of the matching center channel being less as well.

OTOH,   if you have the $ the  N3 and the Neo 3 is going to take things to the next level, especially  with regards to music.  While I haven't  heard the tweeter from the AV3 ( I've heard they are very good) ,  I have heard  botht he   Encore  and Neo 3 (deep back) tweeters  and to me the Neo  adds a degree of smoothness/subtleness  while still being   more detailed  than the Encore.  I feel it sounds  more natural and there is no fatique factor at all. Pure, clean  and smooth,  no rough edges .
The Encore is very good,  I was  really impressed  but it just  doesn't  bring   the same  sense of realism to the room. 
Now, if I hadn't been listening to the Neo 3 all  this time, would  I have been  happy with the Encore?   I'd say  most definitely ,  I would probably  even   be quite satisfied with it  now if I spent  some time listening to it and forgetting about the Neo.  This might be easier said than done but  the point I'm  trying to make is that I could easily live with and be happy with the Encore  , especailly if I hadn't already owned the   

When I first built my N3's,  I had intended them to be used  for fairly equal HT/Music duty. However,   as i stated getting more and more out of the music,  the HT duty dropped WAY off  , probably  now to the point   where  I'd say  95/5 music/ht.  Music has become  so much   more  enjoyable that the HT  interrest has just faded away

Hope  all that  doesn't confuse you  more...   just wanted to make the point  that  no matter   which set you  choose  I think you will be more than happy. But also   that  if the $$ is available,   I personally  think the N3  is  well worth the extra money  especailly  if  you  really  enjoy  your music listening and want to  get the most out of it

-jay

Scott Trebble

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Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #27 on: 31 Aug 2013, 10:47 pm »
One of the reasons I went for the A/V-3 towers was the matched surrounds.  They looked like the best fit for me.   Also, I think the A/V center is a bit smaller.  Otherwise, I was tempted to spring for the N3s.  I'm sure I'll be a happy camper anyways   :thumb:
  Just a newbie here, so please feel free to correct me  :)

Scott Trebble

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Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #28 on: 31 Aug 2013, 10:53 pm »
Jay,
  My speakers haven't even shipped yet, and already you're making me think I shoulda gone with the N3s!   :duh:

Captainhemo

Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #29 on: 1 Sep 2013, 03:47 am »
Don't 2nd guess yourself, I'm  sure  yo're going to be  extremely happy.
My main reason  I went  with the  N3 over the AV3 originally  was because  I  just knew if I went  with the Av3's,  I  would have always been  wondering   :scratch:

Regading the   rears,  Danny  can correct me if I'm wrong  but  I think  they would  work well  with the N3 set as well. They were originally  what I was planning to use with tmy N3's but never got that far  before my folks decided they wanted them

-jay
« Last Edit: 1 Sep 2013, 07:38 am by Captainhemo »

mlundy57

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Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #30 on: 1 Sep 2013, 07:00 pm »
Plus, if you have room in the rear to pull them out, the O-3's will handle the rear and uses the same drivers as the N-3 and N-3S so they should be a perfect match.

Mike

greenklein

Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #31 on: 2 Sep 2013, 01:23 pm »
Thanks again everyone for all of your input...I have a few more questions that I have been considering while I've been standing on ladders the last few days trying to get all of our painting jobs done before I start the school year tomorrow!  So much for Labor day...

Mike, I was wondering why you went for the X-series instead of the A/V or even N?  It seems that with upgrades etc the X and the A/V are fairly similar in price, so why did you end up with the X?

Scott, same question...why the A/V instead of the X or N? I agree with you, Jay is doing a great sales job for the N3!  :lol:

Have a great Labor day everyone!  Off to sling a brush for the last time this summer...

Todd

mlundy57

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Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #32 on: 3 Sep 2013, 03:23 am »
Mike, I was wondering why you went for the X-series instead of the A/V or even N?  It seems that with upgrades etc the X and the A/V are fairly similar in price, so why did you end up with the X?
Todd

Todd,

When I first started looking at the GR-Research kits I had no idea between the different series of speakers A/V, N and OB. At that time the X-Series kits were not on the website so I was unaware of them. I have three HT/music systems in my home and a 2.1 music system in my office.  At first I was looking at upgrading the 2.1 system in my office. Then I planned on upgrading a 5.1 HT/music system upstairs.

It didn't take long before I learned that the OB series speakers needed to be at least 3 feet away from any walls which put them out of the running for both the office and upstairs systems (none of the rooms are big enough). That left me with either the A/V or N series. I wasn't sure which one I would choose so I started building cabinets for both an A/V-1 and an N1X for the office.

After talking to people on this forum and some emails with Danny I decided on the N1X for the office and the N3/N3S combo for the upstairs. This was based on the feedback regarding the clarity and imaging of the Neo-3 tweeter.  Then the X-Encore kits were put on the website and I became aware of them so I started asking questions. It turned out they had been available for quite awhile and a number of people had built them.

The feedback I received on them is that the Peerless T26SG tweeter used in the Encore models is one of the best dome tweeters available. People who have built both X-Encore and N-series speakers said the Encore's tweeters were not quite as good as the Neo-3 but very close. So which to choose? If there wasn't such a price difference I would have gone with the N series speakers. But the price difference is such that I got X-LS Encore and an X-CS Encore kits (fully upgraded) for the price of a fully upgraded N3 kit. If it wasn't for AV123 going out of business the X-series speakers would not have been available as kits. If they had been I doubt they would have been any less then the N series.

Because of the price difference the kits for a fully upgraded 5 speaker X-Encore system (X-MTM Encore, X-CS Encore and X-LS Encore) is about $1,400 while the kits for a fully upgraded N-series system (N3, N3S and N1X) would be a little over $1,700. For me that was enough of a difference I couldn't pass it up.

HOWEVER, I have a second system upstairs and I figured I could upgrade that one to an N-series system if I chose to later on. Then I'd keep the one I liked best in the man cave (OK so it's a converted child's bedroom (think really small) where I can read, listen to music and watch movies my wife doesn't want to watch) and put the other in the guest room. If that were not the case I would have probably chosen the N series for the same reason Jay did, I would rather spend a little more upfront then wonder what I might have been missing later on.

Hope that helps you follow my thought process.

Mike

« Last Edit: 3 Sep 2013, 07:52 pm by mlundy57 »

Scott Trebble

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Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #33 on: 3 Sep 2013, 03:45 pm »
Well,  I did sorta compromise ... going for an XLS Encore pair for the shop,  and AVs for the HT.  After emailing with Danny,  these were his recommendations as well.
  I have a small, awkward place for the HT,  so the speakers needed to accommodate that.  Here's a quick floor plan showing what I have to deal with:



  Having the surrounds on the wall was pretty much mandatory, and the A/V-1RS kits seemed to fit the bill perfectly.  I also like that the center was quite a bit smaller than an X-CS, having 5" less depth, with a smaller profile as well.  The A/V-3 kits can be upgraded  (which I did),  like the X series.  Being able to port out the front on the A/V-3 is a bonus in my small room as well. 
 It was my feeling that the A/V-3s were a step up from the X-Encores,  but I don't really have much to base that on.  Maybe someone more knowledgeable could compare them for you. :roll:
   Don't sweat it too much Todd.  Like others have said...I'm sure they're all good choices.
You and I should be getting kits at about the same time  :thumb:

Scott

greenklein

Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #34 on: 4 Sep 2013, 01:35 am »
Thanks Scott and Mike for replying.  I really appreciate it.  Researching and learning is fun and hearing your reasoning was very informative.  I called Danny today and put in an order for the AV-3's and the center as well.  It seemed that going in this direction was the best for me.  I narrowed it down to the less expensive two options and Danny helped me finalize my decision.  The N3's sound like they're incredible but I didn't really want to part with the extra $$.  Thanks again everyone.  I have learned a ton and I'm sure the education is just beginning.  Gotta love projects! I'll see if I can put together a build thread...be ready for a bunch of questions!

Todd

Captainhemo

Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #35 on: 4 Sep 2013, 02:07 am »
Cool  :)
Looking forward to  following  along with your build

-jay

mlundy57

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Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #36 on: 4 Sep 2013, 02:15 am »
Todd,

You're welcome. Looking forward to your build thread.

Mike

Scott Trebble

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Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #37 on: 4 Sep 2013, 02:53 am »
Awesome Todd  :thumb:
My speakers shipped today :D ....to Canada, so who knows when I'll see them.  Shipping was a killer at over $333 .
I anticipate some new build threads!  :D

Danny Richie

Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #38 on: 4 Sep 2013, 03:48 am »
Awesome Todd  :thumb:
My speakers shipped today :D ....to Canada, so who knows when I'll see them.  Shipping was a killer at over $333 .
I anticipate some new build threads!  :D

I was able to get it all into just two boxes and divide the goodies up to keep each box under the limit of being able to insure a single box for no more than $675. That's the limit that the US post office sets on a single package to Canada.

So your shipping came to just $245.

Scott Trebble

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Re: Rookie needs help choosing a tower build
« Reply #39 on: 4 Sep 2013, 03:22 pm »
Thanks Danny,  that's great!  That is a substantial saving.

  Todd,  are you going for the surrounds as well?    Do you have a sub that you'll be using?