[jchalanick]

Hello:

Let me start with a quick intro.  I'm 30 years old and live in Charlotte, NC.  Like every other guy out there, I have always dreamed of having a great stereo at home.  I've never owned a stereo in my life.  Yes, you heard me.  I grew up with a portable cd player, then obviously an ipod.  So yeah.

Anyways, for the past 2 months I've been looking at building a 3.1 system.  The system will go in a 13ft by 18 ft long living room/dinning room, all open.  My expectations for this system are to greatly improve my tv sound and to be able to stream my music to some good speakers. 

I would say the system will be 60% for music, 30% for tv, and 10% for movies. 

Music I listen to is mostly classic rock (Zeppelin, Queen, GNR, Foreigner), modern rock and folk (Mumford and Sons, Lumineers).  TV is mostly sports and Discovery Channel.  Movies are mostly action and comedy.

The speakers will be roughly 12ft away from the couch.

I have a budget (based off looking at Best Buy, Amazon prices) of $500 for the L R speakers, $200 for the center, and $300 for the sub.  So that's about $1000.  I have a budget of $500 for the receiver.

As I said above, I knew nothing about speakers (and still don't).  So i started my search at Best Buy and HHGREGG.  What I learned is that I don't like the Pioneer ones that people have recommended.  I do like the Polk bookshelf and Floor Standing ones.  The Klipsch ones at Best Buy that are 450 each sound good to me.

Now, having said all of this, i'm open to any brands, build kits, whatever.

I'm not interested in used.  That's just my preference.

So any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. 

From what I have heard in the stores, I liked the Klipsch Icon Dual 8 that are $449.99 each and the Polk TSX dual 6.5.  If I can get some speakers along the lines of these, but in the $500 price point for a pair, I would be very happy.

As far as subs go, I know nothing about them.  I know the Kipsch 12'' on newegg that is on sale for 279 but not in stock is highly recommended.  I also know some SVS ones are as well.  Again, I have no problem getting a kit and putting it together if the price/performance is there.

Anyways, I appreciate any and all responses, even if its go read this post, or google more before you ask.  I need a starting point.

[Captainhemo]

Hi
Welcome  to the circle !

You mentioned  you may be interested in build  kits....    can't help   but recommend   Danny's  XL Encores and X CS Encore Center  over at the GR Research forum.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=90911.0

These are great  speakers  and at the price   Danny  has  them  selling at,  they'd be hard to beat.  The cabinets are easy to build  and   the kits come  with everything you  need including  assembled crossovers.   You can take  these up a level  by  upgrading  the  caps & resistors  which are  also offered.
There are numerous build threads of these kits  over  at the GR circle and I think  everyone  has been  very  impressed  with the results they   ended up   getting   
Definitely worth  checking out

-jay

[jarcher]

Welcome - hope we can make your visit useful & helpful! Owning a nice system that does what you want at your budget is really a joy.

There are actually so many options, with your budget being more than enough to get great sound,  along with a lot of advice, some likely to be conflicting, that it can get maddening.

The best general advice I can offer is to try to get an idea of what sound you like (i.e. not the "absolute" best) and to get there, take the time to demo stuff before you lay down your hard earned cash.  It's very easy to run w/ others suggestions, and / or tempting to just splash cash around hoping you get lucky.  That's an expensive and frustrating way to go - let me tell you from personal experience.

While there is a lot of super gear that can be had super cheap, it really would be worthwhile to reconsider the used route.  A new piece of gear does not guarantee fault-free ownership : you just hope that whatever faults may arise happen within the warranty period!  And sometimes the price premium for that warranty is not worth it.

Anyway - I'm sure you're not here to get the soapbox speech, but to get more specific advice.  There is a topic in the "Cheap & Cheerful" section that offers suggestions from members for ENTIRE systems below the $1K mark. Some include used & DIY, but others all new gear. That may be a way to get your feet wet at a fraction of your budget while you get a handle on what kind of sound you like & want.  I don't think any of us got our first system 100% right from the get go.  So it certainly is as much about the journey of discovery as it is the expected destination.

And now - to ignore what I've said because I can't resist - some specific gear suggestions:

Receiver :

It's real hard in my experience to get the best sound out of a receiver even at the higher end models.  BUT - if you're working at an entry level budget and really must have something that can do double duty for home cinema, you can do a lot worse than a Marantz.  I think people sometimes exaggerate the sound differences at this level in the mass market receivers, but I've not heard anyone say a Marantz sounds bad.  If that sounds like I'm damning it with faint praise, let it be know that I've had up to three of them at one time.

In a recent topic someone asked for a receiver recommendation around the $500 mark, and surprisingly there was unanimous consent that a refurbed SR5007 from acessoriess4less would be the best option:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR5007/MARANTZ-SR5007-100w-x7-NetworkingTheater-Receiver-w/AirPlay-3D-4K/1.html

Don't let the "refurb" part throw you : it could have just been a return. This etailer in particular seems to have a tight relationship with the Marantz & Denon (same group).  In my experience : if you're going to have a problem, it will be during the 1 year warranty (probably in the first few months)

Speakers :

This is very subjective & the easiest to go wrong.  Also be aware that with the right speakers, you may find that you don't need a subwoofer, or some might even argue, even a center channel.  Don't let the box pushers make you think that's necessary, even for home theater! I would start with finding the main left & right channel speakers you like, then building & making choices going about what works well with those. 

Based on your expressed preference for those Klipsch models, and your music, I'm going to take it that you like a more detailed and dynamic sound.  Klipsch will give you that, but I suggest considering other brands as well, as some may say that depending on other gear you could end up with an overly fatiguing sound.  Exciting for an hour or two, particularly with movies, but perhaps grating if you're given to extended listening sessions. 

I've found that some English & Canadian brands sometimes still give you the detail & speed, without going overboard.  And obviously SVS with their new models is getting a lot of attention.  I had an opportunity recently to demo it, and I was impressed. 

If it were me, I would lean towards KEF and Mordaunt Short, which is also an English brand that is more under the radar.  Both are sold by accessories4less. 

I've heard both these company's speakers work well for 2 channel + multichannel home theater, particularly with Marantz gear.  The KEF Q7 or Q700 line is probably the sweet spot of their entry level line.  In MS, the carnival line is very good value for the money.  Nice things with these brands also if you end up going past the return time limit, they are well recognized brands, particularly KEF, so it's not to painful to sell them on.

For MS, this is really a great package, even if you may not necessarily need all the speakers:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MORDCARNPACK/MORDAUNT-SHORT-Carnival-Home-Theater-Speaker-Package/1.html

Don't let the bookshelves fool you, particularly with the sub it's going to give you full frequency sound and might image better than some towers.

Sources :

You haven't mentioned this.  Honestly you can work miracles even with $100 blu ray players that do everything - and that Marantz is almost a full featured network media server.  Considering that the Marantz is going to be doing all the heavy AV lifting, buy the minimum you need.  I like Panasonic because they are fast & feature laden.

For most everything else the USB, digital inputs, or Airplay works well enough.  A word of warning : airplay over wifi is tempting, but at least w/ Marantz I've not found it to sound the best, and at least one review I read has measurements that seemed to prove it.  Airplay is great, but if you use it, use the wired ethernet connection instead. 

Hope that helps & enjoy the music!

[Captainhemo]

The best general advice I can offer is to try to get an idea of what sound you like (i.e. not the "absolute" best) and to get there, take the time to demo stuff before you lay down your hard earned cash.  It's very easy to run w/ others suggestions, and / or tempting to just splash cash around hoping you get lucky.  That's an expensive and frustrating way to go - let me tell you from personal experience.

This is exellent  advice. Nothing beats hearing the gear in  your  own home. If a demo  can't be arranged,  sometimes  it may be possible to find  an owner  located near you who will let you have a listen in their  home which can also be very  helpful.

I also like the refurbished  suggestion.  You save  a substantial amount of $$   compared to the "new" price   and  usually  refurb's  come with a decent   warranty which is important to some folks.  If the warranbty isn't an important,feature to you,  you'll obviously save evenn more  by going the used route.  Also,   by going used,  if you  discover you  have made a "mistake"  in   what you've  choosen  to  purchase,  you  can often turn around and  sell that piece without taking a loss and move on.

This might be common sense but I'll say it anyway...   as jarcher mentioned above,     opinions on gear are going to be very subjective.  You are probably going  to get  a ton of them.
What I'd suggest is do some research on the ones  that interest you... if after reading some  info/reviews on the piece,   it turns out to still interest you continue on  and see if you can arrange a demo  or an audition in somones home .
Might even be a good idea to keep  a few notes on  what  you've liked / disliked about  different pieces you've listened to,  I'm  sure it  would help   you  make a  final  decision  when the time comes

-jay

[jimdgoulding]

One suggestion that I have and that others would agree with, is to get your speakers off the walls and out into the room some.  This will better serve the acoustics and bass evenness within your recordings.  Sorta like this:


All the best.

[jarcher]

And lastly - some retailers and etailers have decent return policies. Unfortunately it's not only getting harder to find decent boutique audio dealers still in business, but even harder those that are willing to keep stock for demo, and even less still who will allow in-home demo. Those few that remain are worth their weight in gold. Almost to the extent that if you hit that trifecta it's best to buy whatever they have that best works for you and not stress that there maybe something even better for the money out there.  There really is no great substitute for the in-home demo.

[Bob2]

Something also to consider.. purchasing demo equipment. I have purchased a few items this way and have gotten some great deals on equipment that are new but used for a weekend to demo at a show. My dac was an exceptional bargin by purchasing in this way. Many of those here that offer advice is very good. Can save you some serious money in the process. Good luck and have fun along the way!!!

[sharpsuxx]

I have some gr research, x-sls encores and an x-cs encore center in cherry built by av123.  They are very nice in a 3.1 setup for movies and music, I can't imagine anything better in that price range.  I would buy them again if I could do it over again.  I think aperion, and axiom could deliver similar value and I have heard axiom m22s and was quite impressed.  Other than that I don't think anything you would find at the big buy store would compare, other than efficiency, my x-sls encores wipe the floor with my old klipsch rf-82s which cost 4 times as much.

[JLM]

Welcome aboard!

Wondering:

1. What's your domestic situation (living alone, with female partner, engaged, kids, pets, etc.).  This will affect how big, loud, complicated, speaker placement options, tipsy stand mounted, etc. the gear can be.
2. How close/tolerant are the neighbors/home-mates?  (Do you want to play loud any time/day/everyday, are you in an apartment, house, dedicated basement room?)
3. Do you expect the system to be used much for entertaining?  Would this involve 'wild' parties (where the system would have to stand up to various forms of abuse?
4. What audio attributes interest you?  (Playing loud, want to ‘hear it all’ at lower volume levels, lots of bass, deep bass, midrange emphasis, zinny highs, huge sound stage, razor sharp details, highly defined imaging, non-fatiguing, etc.)
5. You mentioned 30% TV (most of which IMO is very 'non-critical' of audio quality).  So would your interest be in broadcast movies, sports, etc.?  Do you receive HD quality signals?
6. Why haven't you mentioned rear/surround channels?
7. Is your computer in the same room?
8. Are you comfortable around computers?

Observations:

1. Most audiophiles say they strive for accuracy in reproduction, but we're really after enjoyment (being humans, not computers) and that’s why opinions vary so much.
2. Hard rock includes intended distortion and lots of boomy bass (but not deep bass), so accentuating those attributes can be fatiguing (too much of a good thing after awhile).  Systems that accentuate various distortions (like I think of Klipsch or Polk), or OTOH are too dull, tend to soon be ignored. 
3. Stereo was invented to with 2 channels and the right recordings reproduce a 3 dimensional image.  Some speakers image better than others (differing opinions are easy to come by), but do it well enough that additional channels/speakers don’t contribute much (especially if 90% of your listening is 2 channel anyway).
4. Depending on your left/right speaker choice and your audio tastes, I expect you’ll want to spend more on the subwoofer than you think/hope.  Note that cheap subwoofers tend to be slow, one-note, boom boxes that sound the same regardless of what’s playing and it’s hard to DIY your own for the price you can find the same already built with a warrantee on-line.  For music, most look to sealed designs.

Suggestions:

An entirely different route (good for building an entire new system) is to use your computer as a media server.  Music/movie downloads to rent/purchase are everywhere.  If in the same room, playing an old fashioned physical CD/DVD would be convenient.  Signal can to routed via Apple Express or Apple TV for instance.  One of the super cool features of media servers is how minimalist the system can be when using powered or active (one amplification channel per driver) speakers.  In this case all you need for music is an iPhone/iTouch/iPad for control, Apple Express ($100 USD if your computer isn’t in the same room) with Y-cable to split to left/right RCA jacks that plug in the back of left/right channel speakers and the speakers (which need to be plugged in for power too).

No amplifier to buy or try to match up to speakers, fewer boxes, better value.  Actives have better dynamics, flatter frequency response, and extreme deep/tight bass.  For full bass nearly all powered/active speakers are 2-way standmounts and would need a subwoofer. 

More and more powered speakers for home use are popping up such as Audioengine A2 ($200 USD) or A5+ ($400 USD), NuForce S3-BT ($300 USD), and PSB Alpha PS-1 ($300 USD).

Keep in mind that most active speakers are studio monitors meant for accurate fault finding, not enjoyment listening (exceptions include Paradigm Shift A2 - $600 USD, Quad 9AS - $1,300 USD with built-in DAC, and AVi 9RSS - $2,300 USD also with built-in DAC).  A few, such as Emotive Pro 4, 5, 6 ($350 – 700 USD) try to serve both functions.

[jchalanick]

Single and plan on being that way for awhile.

I would prefer to build my L R C speakers if possible.

What speaker kits would you recomend?

[JLM]

In that case ...

Match drivers all the way across.

I'd start with GR Research (here at AC) or Parts Express.  Look for pre-built cabinets (fill if too big) unless your a finish carpenter.

Recommend staying away from MTM designs to avoid the comb effect (interference/very tight 'sweet spot'/phase cancellation).

Still recommend budgeting a minimum of $500 for subwoofer ($300 might be OK for a sub, but its hard to save any money building your own sub and would kill resale value).  Cheap subs typically are sluggish, one-note affairs.  Sealed designs are recommended for music and can integrate better with smaller speakers (at higher frequencies).

For receivers Denon and Marantz (maybe Onkyo or Harmon Kardon) are the obvious choices at this price point, but Anthem is better.  Just shop by feature set.  Remember that 100 watts is not twice as loud as 50 watts.

If squeezed by budget I'd put more into the sub than extra receiver features. 

[jchalanick]

Hello:

Let me start with a quick intro.  I'm 30 years old and live in Charlotte, NC.  Like every other guy out there, I have always dreamed of having a great stereo at home.  I've never owned a stereo in my life.  Yes, you heard me.  I grew up with a portable cd player, then obviously an ipod.  So yeah.

Anyways, for the past 2 months I've been looking at building a 3.1 system.  The system will go in a 13ft by 18 ft long living room/dinning room, all open.  My expectations for this system are to greatly improve my tv sound and to be able to stream my music to some good speakers. 

I would say the system will be 60% for music, 30% for tv, and 10% for movies. 

Music I listen to is mostly classic rock (Zeppelin, Queen, GNR, Foreigner), modern rock and folk (Mumford and Sons, Lumineers).  TV is mostly sports and Discovery Channel.  Movies are mostly action and comedy.

The speakers will be roughly 12ft away from the couch.

I have a budget (based off looking at Best Buy, Amazon prices) of $500 for the L R speakers, $200 for the center, and $300 for the sub.  So that's about $1000.  I have a budget of $500 for the receiver.

As I said above, I knew nothing about speakers (and still don't).  So i started my search at Best Buy and HHGREGG.  What I learned is that I don't like the Pioneer ones that people have recommended.  I do like the Polk bookshelf and Floor Standing ones.  The Klipsch ones at Best Buy that are 450 each sound good to me.

Now, having said all of this, i'm open to any brands, build kits, whatever.

I'm not interested in used.  That's just my preference.

So any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. 

From what I have heard in the stores, I liked the Klipsch Icon Dual 8 that are $449.99 each and the Polk TSX dual 6.5.  If I can get some speakers along the lines of these, but in the $500 price point for a pair, I would be very happy.

As far as subs go, I know nothing about them.  I know the Kipsch 12'' on newegg that is on sale for 279 but not in stock is highly recommended.  I also know some SVS ones are as well.  Again, I have no problem getting a kit and putting it together if the price/performance is there.

Anyways, I appreciate any and all responses, even if its go read this post, or google more before you ask.  I need a starting point.

I'm thinking about going with two DIY Fusion 8 - Alchemy's.  Thoughts on this for a first timer?  I will buy a sub too, probably the HSU STF-1

[JLM]

Never heard of this vendor (have Audio Alchemy of course, but a different company I'm sure).

Have seen Jeff Bagby on the web.

Eminence has a good name in professional circles.

Never heard of the tweeter, but the mention of controlled dispersion is promising.

Surprised by a couple of the woofer related specs (limited deep bass and rather high crossover) although Hawthorne Audio uses modified 10/15 inchers from Eminence in similar fashion.

Cabinet walls look quite thin for it's size even noting the minimal bracing shown (expect it will generate significant self-sound which nearly all audiophiles dread).

Could make for good rock monitors, but will be rather large to "hide" the center channel above/below the TV.

[lonewolfny42]

Hello:

Let me start with a quick intro.  I'm 30 years old and live in Charlotte, NC.

Welcome...

If you need "local" help...there's a group of good guys in NC...and a cirle here on AC...

Carolina Audiophiles...