Audessy MultiEQ PRO : Worth it?

jarcher · « **on:** 20 Jul 2013, 08:59 pm »

Running a Marantz AV7005, which aside from the Audessy MultiEQ XT, also has the option of MultiEQ Pro, by paying a license fee (think it's $150) + either having a trained pro doing the calibration, or else buying a pricey kit (think it's $550 new) & DIYing it.

Anyone out there ever gone the Pro route, either DIY or via an authorized / trained calibration service? Would appreciate experience on cost, was it worth it, etc.

Thanks!

North Star · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 09:28 pm »

It depends. ...Of your room, of how many times you change things around (furniture and all), and your financial zone of comfort relative to those just mentioned.

Methinks that you need a high degree of interest in your room's interactivity with your PC's (Mac) skills at measuring and evaluating different target curves.
If you're up to it, and want to improve your room's sound furthermore ...

...Best is to read the top threads over at AVS Forum.

jarcher · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 10:36 pm »

XT is worth it (what I'm using currently): just wondering if anyone knows from personal experience if paying for the Pro license + calibrator service is worth it.

Went through 16 pages of threads on home theater shack web page - don't know if I can do the hundreds of pages on avs forum. Also found AVS to be almost rabid in their support of whatever is latest and greatest in Audessy. Looking for more real world / less fan-boy feedback. E.g. Karl Rubinson of Stereophile felt that in his room there wasn't much difference vs XT on his AV7005, all though getting the license opened up the audessy sub eq function, which was worth it for him.

murphy11 · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 10:55 pm »

I have an Integra 8.8 receiver with MultiEQ XT and am happy but have been considering receivers with MultiEQ XT 32. (upgrade bug) Have you considered MultiEQ XT32 vs. Pro and if so what are your thoughts?

North Star · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Jul 2013, 11:02 pm »

Alright, I'll make it simpler to you; Audyssey MultEQ XT32, and Audyssey MultEQ XT Pro are both better than Audyssey MultEQ XT that you are using at the present from your Marantz AV7005.
- Better in the sense of more articulation all across, and better in a sense that you can choose your own target curve and modify it (MultEQ XT Pro).

XT32 in combination with XT Pro is the ultimate sound EQ improvement.

Ok, you said you're not much into reading (you just want to simply know from someone directly with experience).
Alright, I understand. ...I've read tons of information on all Audyssey flavors, Pro included, and what I just said at the beginning (highlighted) of my post here is the abso!ute truth.

AND! Here's three links anyway:

1. Audyssey Pro Intaller Kit - FAQ => http://www.avsforum.com/t/1346723/the-audyssey-pro-installer-kit-thread-faq-in-post-1

2. Audyssey MultEQ XT Pro - Review => http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Audyssey-MultEQ-XT-Pro-Sound-Equalizer-Review.html

3. Installer - Audyssey MultEQ Pro User Guide - Pdf
=> http://installer.audyssey.com/files/Audyssey%20MultEQ%20Pro%20User%20Guide%20for%20Audyssey%20Sound%20Equalizer.pdf

P.S. I'm using an Integra DHC-80.3 surround sound pre/pro (SSP) myself.

jarcher · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Jul 2013, 03:43 am »

I have not heard an XT 32 rig, and as I just last year got the Marantz AV7005, not ready to ditch it yet just to get XT32, as good as it might be. Perhaps a few years down the road if / when XT 32 is surpassed w/ something else + there are other compelling reason to upgrade. Hence the curiosity re: XT Pro.

I do understand that XT 32 + XT Pro is going to be the tops. And theoretically at least XT Pro should be better than XT. The Kal Rubinson / Stereophile comment re: XT VS XT Pro not making that much of a difference for him w/ the AV7005 in his room planted some doubts for me. Hence the call out to those who may have done the jump from XT to XT Pro to know what their real world experience was, how much the calibration service cost, etc to get a feel for what it's worth. I know it will be at least $150 for the license + something for the calibrators time. Somewhere read that Audessy was suggesting $500 including the license., which is a bit more than I would want to spend unless I was pretty 100% sure that it was really really going to be worth it. After all : that's half of what I paid for the AV7005!

North Star : I really do appreciate your going to lengths to lay it out + the links. Honest.

In the context of the above I hope you understand I'm not trying to cop out on the reading, but, e.g. that pro installer AVS link has 153 f'in pages of postings! Will definitely read the XT Pro review + comments link. Thanks!

North Star · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Jul 2013, 05:10 am »

Ok, first, Kal I tust.

Two, it will cost you roughly $300-400 each time an Audyssey Pro calibrator comes to your place (after each time you change a component or speaker position, furniture, even interconnects and speaker wires).

From what I can now decipher, I'd say forget it.

Cheers,
Bob

jarcher · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Jul 2013, 06:24 am »

Good point. And as I always seem to be mucking with gear, those ongoing visits gets pricey. Maybe getting the installer kit used and going DIY makes more sense. But I can just see myself going crazy and blind constantly fiddling with it. I guess sometimes you have to say : good enough is good enough.

Interestingly a friend thinks he can improve the results with his audessy xt getting a better aftermarket mike. That should prove interesting.

North Star · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 12:44 am »

Quote from: jarcher on 21 Jul 2013, 06:24 am

Good point. And as I always seem to be mucking with gear, those ongoing visits gets pricey. Maybe getting the installer kit used and going DIY makes more sense. But I can just see myself going crazy and blind constantly fiddling with it. I guess sometimes you have to say : good enough is good enough.

Interestingly a friend thinks he can improve the results with his audessy xt getting a better aftermarket mike. That should prove interesting.

Yes it does. ...You simply need to take the time; you, your mic, and your PC (Mac), by taking the measurements and by entering them in your data base. ...And by being able to learn on how to read the graphs, and by modifying them for best results to YOU. ...Prefered target curves. ...It's fun and educational anyway, and you learn a thing or two about your room's own acoustics.

As for your friend and getting another Audyssey mic, with his XT component; good luck to him, as each mic is calibrated for each particular unit.
Anything else is a free fly in your window without knowing which season it is outside of it!

jarcher · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 03:23 am »

Uhm - I'm don't think any audessy xt / xt32 receivers requires unit specific calibrated mic - whether it's the little pyramid unit that comes with receivers / processors or the audyssey pro kit. For the latter if that were true the installers couldn't use the mic for multiple installations!

I do think the friend is going to try a non audyssey brand mic, which should be interesting.

North Star · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 03:42 am »

If you do the Audyssey MultEQ XT Pro calibration, you use the mic that comes with the pro kit; only for units that are Audyssey MultEQ XT Pro Ready.
If you do the Audyssey MultEQ XT, you use the Audyssey pyramid type mic that comes with your unit. ...Internal calibration of your particular unit.
{This last one includes all Audyssey flavors; 2EQ, MultEQ, MultEQ XT, and MultEQ XT32.}

Should be clear now.

Mudslide · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 04:05 am »

After having flayed about with various room correction products and programs (including XT32 but not the Pro), I've become convinced that PEQ is limited only to smoothing peaks and dips....not fixing them. Your question just reminds me that with the PRO you'll be paying a lot for a limited improvement on the fine tweaking ability of the EQ filters. A program like Audyssey can only make 6 dB (or so) changes without it smearing your equipment's output...especially on the boosting of dips. So for certain, you are limited by a large extent to the sonic signature of your room. If it's awful, the Pro won't help. If it's not awful, the XT32 should do just fine.

But, for me anyway, room treatments are a far more valuable investment in controlling room acoustics.

Good luck with your project.

jarcher · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 04:28 am »

Quote from: North Star on 22 Jul 2013, 03:42 am

If you do the Audyssey MultEQ XT Pro calibration, you use the mic that comes with the pro kit; only for units that are Audyssey MultEQ XT Pro Ready.
If you do the Audyssey MultEQ XT, you use the Audyssey pyramid type that comes with your unit. ...Internal calibration of your particular unit.
{This last one includes all Audyssey flavors; 2EQ, MultEQ, MultEQ XT, and MultEQ XT32.}

Should be clear now.

Yes, i understand which mic is used with which application. What I'm saying is that I don't think that either the pro kit mic, nor even the pyramid mics, are calibrated for your specific receiver / processor. If so there would be mention of it in the very thorough manual saying you must use the pyramid mic that came with your unit - or get another calibrated for your unit if you lose it. This not being the case I'm assuming the pyramid mics are universally usable (as well as the pro kit mic).

jarcher · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 04:38 am »

Quote from: Mudslide on 22 Jul 2013, 04:05 am

After having flayed about with various room correction products and programs (including XT32 but not the Pro), I've become convinced that PEQ is limited only to smoothing peaks and dips....not fixing them. Your question just reminds me that with the PRO you'll be paying a lot for a limited improvement on the fine tweaking ability of the EQ filters. A program like Audyssey can only make 6 dB (or so) changes without it smearing your equipment's output...especially on the boosting of dips. So for certain, you are limited by a large extent to the sonic signature of your room. If it's awful, the Pro won't help. If it's not awful, the XT32 should do just fine.

But, for me anyway, room treatments are a far more valuable investment in controlling room acoustics.

Good luck with your project.

Well they also claim with audyssey that it works not just in the frequency but also time domain....

Hard to know if 6db is enough, but it seems like plenty to me! Fortunately aside from a node somewhere in the 30-40hz range, it doesn't seem like my room has big acoustical issues.

Ultimately acoustical treatments do seem to make the most sense though it's hard for the layperson to know where to start. I guess that's the appeal of automated room EQ, however limited in practice the results may be.

North Star · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 06:33 am »

Quote from: Mudslide on 22 Jul 2013, 04:05 am

After having flayed about with various room correction products and programs (including XT32 but not the Pro), I've become convinced that PEQ is limited only to smoothing peaks and dips....not fixing them. Your question just reminds me that with the PRO you'll be paying a lot for a limited improvement on the fine tweaking ability of the EQ filters. A program like Audyssey can only make 6 dB (or so) changes without it smearing your equipment's output...especially on the boosting of dips. So for certain, you are limited by a large extent to the sonic signature of your room. If it's awful, the Pro won't help. If it's not awful, the XT32 should do just fine.

But, for me anyway, room treatments are a far more valuable investment in controlling room acoustics.

Good luck with your project.

Right there, you just said it.

North Star · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 06:38 am »

Quote from: jarcher on 22 Jul 2013, 04:28 am

Yes, i understand which mic is used with which application. What I'm saying is that I don't think that either the pro kit mic, nor even the pyramid mics, are calibrated for your specific receiver / processor. If so there would be mention of it in the very thorough manual saying you must use the pyramid mic that came with your unit - or get another calibrated for your unit if you lose it. This not being the case I'm assuming the pyramid mics are universally usable (as well as the pro kit mic).

Whatever, but what I just said to you is from Chris Kyriakakis, the Audyssey man himself. You can contact him from his various blogs.
Just google Audyssey FAQ.

=> http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/faq <<<>>> {Just go to MULTEQ QUESTIONS section.}

And me, I'm nobody, just a guy that has been into Audyssey extensively since the very beginning (2004). ...And much more.

North Star · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 06:50 am »

You can also use the REW program to verify your room's acoustic. And a good mic is only fifty bucks. And that REW program is free!
{You can learn more over at HomeTheaterShack; the Shack. ...Just google it, with REW.}

Then if you're really up to it just buy (download) the DIRAC Live EQ program system (anywhere from $700 to $900, I believe). ...And it's yours forever.

And don't forget acoustic room's treatments. ...First better.

Mudslide · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 03:02 pm »

Quote from: jarcher on 22 Jul 2013, 04:38 am

Well they also claim with audyssey that it works not just in the frequency but also time domain....

Hard to know if 6db is enough, but it seems like plenty to me! Fortunately aside from a node somewhere in the 30-40hz range, it doesn't seem like my room has big acoustical issues.

Ultimately acoustical treatments do seem to make the most sense though it's hard for the layperson to know where to start. I guess that's the appeal of automated room EQ, however limited in practice the results may be.

Your XT32 works in the time domain, too. No need for Pro there.

Here's a little test for you. Run a disc/movie that you are familiar with through your Marantz, switching as quickly as you can between its Audyssey on setting and Audyssey off (with speaker distance set and levels equalized). Do you detect a large difference in presentation? Which, if either, do you prefer? If you do not detect a substantial difference OR largely prefer the Audyssey-on presentation, don't waste your money on the Pro version...or any other automatic room correction system.

A lot of what you're looking at now is measured performance. What about what you can actually hear?

Even if you can hear a big Audyssey-on difference/improvement in audio presentation, instead of spending big bucks blindly, email Glenn over at GIK Acoustics, or some such acoustics specialist/treatment supplier. They'll head you in the right direction with regard to R.C.

Mudslide · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 03:16 pm »

One last option for you to consider...especially if you have extra bucks burning a whole in your wallet ....

Perfect for truly automated plug and play is the DSPeaker Anti-Mode system. No muss, no fuss. Just flip a switch. Now it will only correct the bass frequencies, but those are where your troublesome room nodes are likely to be. http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/20-dual-core.shtml

Again, good luck with your project. Chasing perfection is such a ^*%$&#(.

jarcher · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 04:07 pm »

Quote from: North Star on 22 Jul 2013, 06:38 am

Whatever, but what I just said to you is from Chris Kyriakakis, the Audyssey man himself. You can contact him from his various blogs.
Just google Audyssey FAQ.

=> http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/faq <<<>>> {Just go to MULTEQ QUESTIONS section.}

And me, I'm nobody, just a guy that has been into Audyssey extensively since the very beginning (2004). ...And much more.

I stand corrected

Great - I got two of those little f'ers & now I don't know which one goes to which! You'd think they would but the serial # of you're unit on it or otherwise warn you. Some gear junkies like me have more than one Audyssey receiver / processor. I did notice once when I was trying to run XT again that it kept insisting some speakers were out of phase and couldn't seem to detect a rear surround channel, so I changed the mic for the other one and things seem to run smoother. I thought the mic had maybe gone bad. Maybe this explains why.

I will have to give REW + mic some thought. Guess if the friend is getting the fancy mic, I can borrow that & do it w/ no out of pocket.....

My lowly XT (don't have 32 unfortunately) does improve things for home theater - particularly for vocals / center channel - though I tend to go "pure direct" for music. And via another member I've witnessed what even a "modest" Behringer digital EQ can do when properly used for 2 channel. So that's what's prompted all this audyssey / room correction head scratching.

And yes, chasing perfection is a total bitch!