Forward Into the Past: My new Sennheiser 650's

dB Cooper · « **on:** 13 Jul 2013, 11:58 am »

I just received my new Senn 650s and am loving them. So why '"Forward Into the Past?" Partly because it's a great Firesign Theatre line, partly because it's a good description of how I arrived at these cans.

Some years ago I had HD580's, the "ancestor" of the 650. Upon learning of the much-feared "Sennheiser Veil", I set out to rid myself of this scourge. A few stops along the way, I landed on the HD555 for awhile, which settled matters- I thought. But over time I came to experience these as overly bright. Be careful what you ask for. I tried homebrew "mods" like sticking cloth in front of the drivers. Nothing "mechanical" worked. (I have since come to the conclusion that there must be some "peak" in the 555's FR that I just happen to be sensitive to.)

So I started looking into other "cans". A friend loaned me his Beyer 770s (pretty good but a little uneven at the extremes). The same person also let me try his AKG K701s. I wanted to like the 701s- I really did. They were VERY comfortable- the only cans I've tried that seriously challenge Senns on that front- but they were even brighter than my 555s. They also made me wince with their overly "etched" presentation. I saw one review which compared the presentation to a jpeg image that has been sharpened a bit too much in Photoshop. That seems pretty apt to me. Not to disparage anyone who IS a fan; just not my cup of tea.

Anyway, after realizing that my issue with most cans and source material seemed to be keeping the highs under control, I came to the largely unscientific conclusion that much source material and most headphones are "hotter" in the highs than in the past, and that maybe the "veil" was just what the doctor ordered. Preliminary listening (they are still breaking in) seems to be bearing this out. For me at least, this is the right choice. They have good detail and reward hi quality lossless material but (unlike the 701s) are not "punishing"on (good quality) Internet radio stations like KUWL (256K mp3) or the "Beeb" (320k AAC).

Also, given the "fashion statement" trend in headphones these days (e.g. the "on ear" version of the Momentums mentioned in another thread, which come in four colors), I wanted to get these while they are still around. I had heard that the 600s had been discontinued. A person at Sennheiser told me no, but it is very unusual for anything in consumer electronics to have a production life anything like this item, which indicates Senn must have done something right in the first place. The Amperiors, for example. were just discontinued after a run of- maybe- two years. Senheiser could decide to discontinue these tomorrow for all I know.

So they are plugged into an O2 and I am now going to return my full attention to the music (the reason we all do this, right?) My time is done and I thank you for yours.

Devil Doc · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 01:52 pm »

I have never regretted buying mine and have no desire to spend 1k+ to upgrade.
They've been around a while for a reason.

Doc

dB Cooper · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 03:20 pm »

Volume got a little excessive last night (they're so clean...)

They will continue their break-in process while I am at work today.

Yep, DevilDoc, they have stayed around for a reason. Come to think of it, how many audio devices of any type have a ten year (and counting) production life?

I have listened to the HD800 and was quite impressed but you're definitely climbing the curve of diminishing returns there.

FireGuy · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 05:31 pm »

Nice report on the Senn's dB Cooper. I too stayed with their HD 555's for a bit and similarly upgraded. Pound for pound these cans are quite good for the money (think I paid $82.00). My choice was the Beyerdynamic DT-880. My decision was based on Beyer's other models including the T1. Like you I'm very satisfied with my decision.

dB Cooper · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 07:45 pm »

I plan to give the 880s an audition at Capital AudioFest later this month.pretty impressed with the Dt770s for the money. How would you say the highs on the 880 compare to the 555 as far as overall balance goes?

Also hope to hear the T1 and LCD3 there(CAF). I'm a headphone nerd. Hope nothing there blows me away, or there could be trouble....

Audioclyde · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 08:01 pm »

I like my 650's quite a lot, and love their comfort, but since I got some HE-500's the 650's aren't getting very much use at all--I find the HE-500's loads of fun to listen to and am really liking their sound. Comfort isn't bad (to me they are significantly more comfortable than the LCD-2's I used to own), but not as comfortable as the 650's.

Randy

FireGuy · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 08:06 pm »

Quote from: dB Cooper on 13 Jul 2013, 07:45 pm

I plan to give the 880s an audition at Capital AudioFest later this month.pretty impressed with the Dt770s for the money. How would you say the highs on the 880 compare to the 555 as far as overall balance goes?

Also hope to hear the T1 and LCD3 there(CAF). I'm a headphone nerd. Hope nothing there blows me away, or there could be trouble....

The 880's highs (to me) seem more delicate and refined. But, push them too hard with the wrong source material this freq can become somewhat brittle. But, this is an extreme situation. I find the comfort to be extraordinary and the overall sonic balance slightly forward, linear. Neutral for me is good, just like my monitors. Good lucky with your road test at the AudioFest. I'd like to be there too.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 10:15 pm »

Quote from: dB Cooper on 13 Jul 2013, 03:20 pm

Volume got a little excessive last night (they're so clean...)

They will continue their break-in process while I am at work today.

Yep, DevilDoc, they have stayed around for a reason. Come to think of it, how many audio devices of any type have a ten year (and counting) production life?

I have listened to the HD800 and was quite impressed but you're definitely climbing the curve of diminishing returns there.

I emailed Sennheiser Brazil and they flat dont had any demo HD800 to borrow me for a listening test.
So you would inform me your impressions about the HD800 soundstage size??
Here or by a PM.
Thanks

dB Cooper · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 04:08 am »

Thanks dalethorn. I would also say that the 800 has a very wide soundstage but I don't know how to quantify that.

However, I am quite pleased with my 650s as I didn't have an extra thou burning a hole in my pocket.

dB Cooper · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 12:28 pm »

My 555's also have the angled drivers, and they might- MIGHT- even surpass the HD650's in the "soundstaging" area (although the 650's trounce them in pretty much every other way).

Surprisingly, if you overlay the curves from headroom, the high ends (650 vs 800) don't look that different. Measurement limitations maybe? I found the 800s to be maybe a bit on the bright side but certainly no more than the recent models from other mfrs. I certainly didn't find the highs monopolizing my attention the way they did on the K701. However, like the K701, it may share more than you want to know about many less-than-stellar recordings. You have to consider the source material and "front end" before dropping $1500 on a set of cans that may only sound good on 15% of your records.

I was listening to Chick Corea/Gary Burton "Lyric Suite for Sextet" last night and I didn't find the 650's "veiled" at all FWIW. (YMMV)

dB Cooper · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 01:19 pm »

What I was getting at was that the HD800 is getting a rep as a "bright" headphone and the 650 has long had a rep as "very dark", yet they don't measure very differently in that area. Everybody seems to have an opinion on the 650, even if they've never heard it

Chazro · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 06:07 pm »

Hi DB! So you went from the 580 to the 650. I'm curious, have you heard the 600? There's differing opinions as to whether the 650's a step up or down which IMO speaks volumes about the sound quality of the 600. Currently the 600 can be bought for $100-150 bucks less than the 650. I've owned my 600's for almost 10 yrs, replaced the stock cable with one from Cardas, recently replaced the earpads and they're good as new! I've read good things about yr amp. I use an old Musical Fidelity tube amp, Senn's have a long-recognized synergy with tube amps. With cables and amps to play with you oughtta have tons of fun with yr new toy for years to come!

dB Cooper · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 07:21 pm »

I actually went on a sojourn to some other 'phones in the long interim between my long-ago 580 days and the recent 650 purchase. I listened to the 600 briefly at CAF last year. The story I had always heard was that the 600 had a slightly 'brighter' voicing than the 580 and that the 650 returned to a voicing more like the 580. (The 580 Jubilee was, in essence, the first 600.) I no longer have the 580 on hand to compare.

I do know that there are indeed some who prefer the less expensive 600 over the 650. Diff'rent strokes I guess.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 07:31 pm »

Thanks boys for your first hand info about the HD800.
Regards

dB Cooper · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 10:37 pm »

FULLRANGEMAN- if you don't live near a place that sells the HD800 (in the USA most "high end" audio shops are gone and those that remain are kept afloat largely by HT) you may want to see what return/trial/exchange options exist there on direct sales from Sennheiser. You won't return them because of a lack of definition, I can sure tell you that. I heard them at the local Capital Audiofest show. Maybe there's a similar opportunity near you?

My impression of the voicing was that they may have been a wee bit on the "bright" side of strictly neutral but nowhere near as bright as the K701. Anyway, just got home from work and the 650's are now on my noggin (they have been playing/ breaking in essentially nonstop since I unboxed them Friday night). The sound is starting to 'open up' nicely and I am starting to appreciate why they are such a perennial favorite.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 10:57 pm »

Thanks for the tips, the show you mention happen in SP and Rio in September, a bit far away indeed.
The Sennheiser-Br manager send me to the brazilian distributor located in SP(Link do Brasil) that had a demo HD800, but not for send to custumers, just in loco listening.

parr3n1 · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 11:30 pm »

dB, I know you are a fan of the o2, have you ever tried the 650's with tubes?

dB Cooper · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Jul 2013, 11:47 am »

Quote from: parr3n1 on 14 Jul 2013, 11:30 pm

dB, I know you are a fan of the o2, have you ever tried the 650's with tubes?

I haven't, but Woo Audio will be at CAF again in two weeks (picture a room FILLED with tube headphone amps) and I expect they will have some on hand.

I like the O2 not just because it is a good amp (had a chance to borrow one before I bought mine) but because it's an extraordinary value in today's headphone amp market. There are many good amps out there. It's just that, as the designer of the O2 pointed out, it can be hard to find which is good or not as many mfrs have been reluctant to provide even basic performance data. Not like there's a corner audio shop to try them out at anymore...

hibuckhobby · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Jul 2013, 01:53 pm »

I confess to being a tubeaholic, but still, the best sound I have heard from both my HD600's
and HD650's is with the Bottlehead Crack amp. They sound great with the inexpensive tubes
you get with the kit and take a step up when you insert 5998's or 2399's. I still have one
Woo amp because of the switchable impedance, but to my "aging" ears, the Crack is the
one to try.
Hibuck....

dB Cooper · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Jul 2013, 01:36 am »

Not wanting to wander too far off topic but the Torpedo headphone amp is another contender right at the price point of the Crack. It is xformer coupled rather than OTL and is built on a single PCB so might also be an easier project for somebody considering a first time kit build. Unless you buy into the point-to-point-is-better POV, might be a tossup between these two. For the cheap-n-cheerful crowd, there's this $126+s/h tube amp kit.

Anyway the 650s are sounding pretty damn good these days through the O2. I may fine tune the gain settings (a couple resistor changes) to suit my particular 'phones (Etymotic hf3/Senn HD650) but that is as DIY as I am inclined to get these days.