[dkmooers]

So I built a pair of Super Vs, but I'm not super hot on the looks of the P-Audio driver and don't like grilles much either, and I'm interested in the superior performance of the Neo10's. I'm thinking about building a Super 7 clone with the Neo10's and a Raal 70-10d instead of the Neo3, in a bamboo ply baffle.

Question is, do I convert my Super Vs to Super 7's or just rebuild? Anyone have upper baffle dimensions on the Super 7, and/or dimensions on the woofer setup? (Seems like the Super 7 woofers aren't quite as far back in the cabinet from the photos Danny posted, but hard to tell). Danny chime in here or ultra-proprietary on the build specs?

Cheers,
Devin

[gregfisk]

Hi Devin,

My guess is your not going to get the crossover info. you need to do a Super 7 and I know they are a lot taller. I went ahead and bought the last Super V kit after listening to yours. I havn't built mine yet but am looking forward to it. Otherwise I would be contacting you to buy yours as I saw you had them up for sale.

Good luck with what ever you do,

Greg

[jparkhur]

The neo 10 and three are very trick when it comes to baffles etc. my guess is even if u are a great woodworker you are at a higher percentage to fail than succeed. I'm not trying to be difficult but I am only half aware of the trials with neos and you would need the specific xo and baffle info to do it correct. Off by a 1/2 inch wide or tall throws off the. Divers.  It is not as easy as sticking a new baffle on top the two twelves.  I agree, the neo drivers are much better than the p audio in my view as well as others but don't she'll out a bunch of dough thinking you or someone else can build it to even 60 percent. 

If you choose to cut a bunch of wood start with Mdf before you cut bamboo $&&&.  Trying to keep it real and not envision an easy cut and paste from the pictures. 

[nickd]

It appears the Neo drivers are more difficult to work with than one would think. I think a re work of the Super V's is not an option. They are very good and tube friendly some one will buy them for the right price.

I think a fresh design is your best shot. You will have to have to come up with a viable crossover though. the baffle can be worked out. CNC machines have made almost anything possible there.

Just go DIY and get some help with the crossover. The question is are you close to anyone with the knowledge and equipment to engineer a really good crossover? Shipping the big stuff really gets expensive.

[Danny Richie]

A couple of thoughts on that.

First of all the RAAL isn't really a good option in that design. It is a sealed back and is never going to have the performance and transparency of the Neo 3. In that application the Neo far exceeds it. And that particular RAAL is only rated at 92db sensitivity. The custom Neo 3 is 97db also. The Neo 10's hit 97db with the same input. And the recommended crossover point for that RAAL is 2,800Hz with a 4th order crossover. So it really doesn't drop in low enough to fill the drop off in the off axis response of the Neo 10's.

The key to making this design work was the months spent developing the right baffle. That is a really big deal to get right with these drivers. Even now that they are finalized they are all CNC cut to maintain consistency.

The second big factor is the crossover design. And there won't be any Super-7 crossovers floating around out there.

You have got a great speaker. If you want to move up the food chain so to speak then you'd be better off selling it and starting over. The Super-V is pretty popular and there are no more of them available. So chances of you getting everything you have in them are pretty high.

You might even inquire as to what kind of deal you might be able to get on a pair of Super-7's. I do have a little pull in that regard.

[dkmooers]

Thanks Danny and everyone else for the input. Was not aware that the Neo's are so finicky! Definitely sounds like an in-depth project that could take a while, with dubious results without having a really good chamber to measure/test them in. Hmm. Was planning on implementing a digital crossover with my Metric Halo ULN-8 interface, which has quite nice converters as well, obviating the need for designing a quality passive crossover (which is way over my head at this point).

And then I was going to CAD-design the baffle and get it CNC'ed at a local woodshop. (Good point, j, RE starting with MDF before wasting hundreds on plyboo!)

But anyway, given the difficulty, may wait a while on this project. I built the Super V's totally at the wrong time in my life -- not in a living situation with a space that can do them justice, so I'm using near-field monitors for the time being. Perhaps I will hold onto the Super V's until I get into a better space and can really audition them closer to their potential. Have never actually heard a Super V in a good room, so it may just be that I don't know what I'm missing. Main idea is to use my nearfield monitors for most mixing duties (they're exceedingly accurate but don't have much bass), and bigger/ballsier speakers for tracking (like the Super V).

Oh and thanks, Danny, for the note about a possible deal on the Super 7. If/when I'm ready to spend $10-15k+ on a speaker, I might send you a PM!

Also interesting to hear your thoughts, Danny, on the RAAL. I've read in multiple places that people pick the RAAL over the Neo3. What about the RAAL 140-15d in open baffle? Any experience with that one?

Actually, Danny, you designed the crossover on the Tyler D1's, right? What's your opinion on those versus the Super V's? Having never heard either of them set up properly in a good room, all I have to go on is reviews, but I know of a couple mastering guys using the D1's and they seem very well regarded. Would one make a better mixing/mastering speaker than the other? Or apples to oranges?

[Danny Richie]

Also interesting to hear your thoughts, Danny, on the RAAL. I've read in multiple places that people pick the RAAL over the Neo3. What about the RAAL 140-15d in open baffle? Any experience with that one?

I have used and designed with the top RAAL OEM only version. It was a nice tweeter. It has the typical ribbon sound to me. It has its pros and cons. I personally wouldn't choose it over the Neo's if they cost the same. However, the RAAL is a lot more expensive. So I really can't see it. 

Most that have compared it to the Neo's are comparing it to the stock version with small back cup. The Neo 3 pdr with deep back cup is a really different tweeter, and has a much better sound. Then in an open baffle the Neo is in a completely different league. It goes from pretty good to real good, to incredible.

Actually, Danny, you designed the crossover on the Tyler D1's, right? What's your opinion on those versus the Super V's? Having never heard either of them set up properly in a good room, all I have to go on is reviews, but I know of a couple mastering guys using the D1's and they seem very well regarded. Would one make a better mixing/mastering speaker than the other? Or apples to oranges?

Those are apples and oranges. I do have a customer in CA that owns both. You might get John to chime in on that.

The Super-V has much higher sensitivity, higher dynamics, is all open baffle, has servo controlled woofers.... Completely different performance. And they do need to be well out into the room.

The D1's are a great design. They are very accurate. They can be placed closer to a front wall. And can even be used in a large studio for mixing. They can also be upgraded quite a bit and taken up a notch or two.

Very different speakers....

[dkmooers]

The Neo3 PDR sounds great, definitely trust your experience on that one. How do I get in touch with John, who owns both the D1 and Super V? Is he active on the forums?

[Danny Richie]

The Neo3 PDR sounds great, definitely trust your experience on that one. How do I get in touch with John, who owns both the D1 and Super V? Is he active on the forums?

SoCalWJS : http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=profile;u=48597

[SoCalWJS]

SoCalWJS : http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=profile;u=48597

I was afraid I was the "John" you were referring to  .......Super V's and LS 6's here.


MichaelHiFi has the Super V's and used to own Tyler's - maybe him?

[Danny Richie]

I was afraid I was the "John" you were referring to  .......Super V's and LS 6's here.


MichaelHiFi has the Super V's and used to own Tyler's - maybe him?

Oh yeah that's right.

[dkmooers]

Just PMed Michael, cheers!