Blown mid-range drivers on my beloved VR-4

Rouslanbel · « **on:** 9 Jul 2013, 06:04 am »

... While playing Bach - Toccata and Fugue in D Minor ... At max volume of Emotiva XPA-2 (300 watts RMS @ 8 ohms, 400 watts RMS at 6 ohms, 500 watts RMS at 4 ohms)

I was burning in new cables and put CD on repeat. It was playing fine several times - and I left it for a couple of hours - came back and found amp in a protective mode.

I can hear twitter and bass module, but midrange driver seems to be totally gone on both speakers.

I guess, I deserve it.

Should've been more considerate given 30+ age of the speakers.

Is there a fuse inside crossover?

If not - it maybe a time for an upgrade...

roscoeiii · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Jul 2013, 05:07 pm »

And last I checked you can get the VR-4s upgraded to VR-44 drivers etc. IIRC it is even possible to do it in stages. Top module first, then bass when you can afford it. Imagine a VSA person can fill you in on details.

azhtnut · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Jul 2013, 07:53 pm »

Hi,

I had a similar experience with woofers on the VR4jr MK3 version. If you need to, Albert sent me a link to a reconing service by the name of meniscus audio. Do a google search and you should find them. My woofers are currently enroute, so I don't know how good the service. Albert mentioned the cost of their service is a $150 - 300 or something like that which is much cheaper than buying the midrange new.

Good luck,

Marty

Rouslanbel · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Jul 2013, 06:24 am »

Thanks guys,
I had a chat with Albert and decided to go with VR-44 upgrade.
I was very impressed by the extent of the upgrade which includes not just drivers, wiring and cross-overs, but also tri-laminate cabinet internals upgrades also which increased the weight of each speaker by 50 lbs
I felt it's a great deal for 4K.

Freight truck suppose to come on Friday

roscoeiii · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Jul 2013, 02:05 pm »

Please report back to us with your impressions. I have been very tempted to do this when I have tha cash.

Rouslanbel · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 Jul 2013, 03:43 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 10 Jul 2013, 02:05 pm

Please report back to us with your impressions. I have been very tempted to do this when I have tha cash.

Absolutely,
It is going to take some time - 4-6 weeks for upgrade process plus shipping plus burn-in

Rouslanbel · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 05:04 pm »

Speakers are shipped to Albert.

Apparently original VR-4s could be upgraded to VR-44 or to VR-5 Anniversary MkII

I didn't even know the second upgrade is possible - still have a few days to decide which one to do

Anyone had a chance to audition VR-44 vs VR-5 Anniversary MkII
?

htradtk · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 07:25 pm »

R,

As a happy owner of the VR-5 Anniversary MKII, I would talk with Albert and see what he can do for you, you would be very happy with them, great soundstage.

Henry

Don_S · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 07:39 pm »

You might want to ask Albert for burn in technique suggestions.

Also I question running any amp at full volume. Never invite clipping.

I hope your really like whatever upgrade you get. Way to make lemonade.

Quote from: Rouslanbel on 10 Jul 2013, 03:43 pm

Absolutely,
It is going to take some time - 4-6 weeks for upgrade process plus shipping plus burn-in

kernelbob · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Jul 2013, 11:56 pm »

Hi Rouslanbel,
I started out with VR6's in the late 1990's and got a pair of the original VR4SR. I was considering an upgrade to the SR Mk-II's and asked Albert about getting the upgrade. He launched into an hour long discussion of the VR5-Anniversary. At the end he said the reason he covered all the VR5's features was that I could upgrade the VR4SR to that. Well, I jumped at the opportunity (the cost was reasonable). The VR5-Annis were a huge improvement over the 4SR's, especially with the upgrade from the aluminum woofers to the magnesiums ones on the Annis. Similarly the midrange and tweeters are the same as on the 9's and 11's. The upgrade was to the Mk-I series. I never made the upgrade to the Mk-II, but given that part of the upgrade is to the Masterbuilt internal wiring as well as crossover parts upgrade, I'm sure you'll love the Annis. However, I've only heard the VR44 at shows and can't comment on how it compares to the Annis. Your best best is to talk it over with Albert.

DS-21 · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Jul 2013, 10:54 pm »

Quote from: Rouslanbel on 9 Jul 2013, 06:04 am

I was burning in new cables and put CD on repeat. It was playing fine several times - and I left it for a couple of hours - came back and found amp in a protective mode.

I can hear twitter and bass module, but midrange driver seems to be totally gone on both speakers.

I guess, I deserve it.

Madisound for a time stocked the midrange. They may still have some. Ask for Audax part HM130C0-VON.

If you were told by some vender that wires need to be "burned in," then you were conned, and IMO it's reasonable to seek compensation from that scammer for the damage done to your loudspeakers. If you came up with that bizarre delusion on your own, then obviously never mind.

Rouslanbel · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 Jul 2013, 02:33 am »

Quote from: DS-21 on 24 Jul 2013, 10:54 pm

Madisound for a time stocked the midrange. They may still have some. Ask for Audax part HM130C0-VON.

If you were told by some vender that wires need to be "burned in," then you were conned, and IMO it's reasonable to seek compensation from that scammer for the damage done to your loudspeakers. If you came up with that bizarre delusion on your own, then obviously never mind.

Cabledyne requires for at least 40 hours burn-in on their silver XLR interconnects - the letter was included in the package. That said, I would still blame my own stupidity

It may be just me, but I think we have way too many lawsuits in this country

jules · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Jul 2013, 05:22 am »

Can I suggest that next time around you forget the burn in, completely.

Pity about the recommendation by Cabledyne but I hope you can pick up a replacement driver.

jules

DS-21 · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 Jul 2013, 11:38 am »

Quote from: Rouslanbel on 25 Jul 2013, 02:33 am

Cabledyne requires for at least 40 hours burn-in on their silver XLR interconnects - the letter was included in the package. That said, I would still blame my own stupidity

It may be just me, but I think we have way too many lawsuits in this country

We have too many con-men and scammers in this country too.

Based on this idiot letter, "Cabledyne" is clearly among them.

We also have too many unfounded assumptions. One needn't sue in court to be compensated for damage caused by reliance on negligent or malicious advice. I personally would start with a phone call to the lowly scammer in question...

Woot · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Jul 2013, 03:07 pm »

I've heard the 4's, 44', and the 5Annis. If you can swing it get the Annis, although any of them are really really great.

I owned 4SR's for years and now have 5SE's which are no longer available.

keith · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Aug 2013, 10:10 am »

Just chiming in. I've owned the DB-99 SE forever and refused to let them go. They are still the last high sensitivity speakers AVS made. Well ... until Albert and Damon recommended I go get the 44 Aktives based on my room size. I am familiar with the 5 Anni's and now own the 44 Aktives, you can't go wrong with either. I do like the fact that my 18 watt Monoblock Lamm's can still drive the 44 Aktives easily. Sadly my flea powered amps have gone to a new owner, along with my DB-99 SEs.

Happy hunting.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Aug 2013, 11:58 am »

Quote from: keith on 24 Aug 2013, 10:10 am

Just chiming in. I've owned the DB-99 SE forever and refused to let them go. They are still the last high sensitivity speakers AVS made. Well ... until Albert and Damon recommended I go get the 44 Aktives based on my room size. I am familiar with the 5 Anni's and now own the 44 Aktives, you can't go wrong with either. I do like the fact that my 18 watt Monoblock Lamm's can still drive the 44 Aktives easily. Sadly my flea powered amps have gone to a new owner, along with my DB-99 SEs.

Happy hunting.

Keith, what were the main differences you heard between the 44s and the 5 Annis?

rocker9999 · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Aug 2013, 12:40 pm »

You cranked a 300 watt RMS amp and left the speakers cranking at full throttle? Well, then its no surprise you blew out the mids. My vintage Marantz 2265b at half power would have destroyed the rest of the drivers. Good luck on the repairs.

es347 · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Aug 2013, 01:38 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 24 Aug 2013, 11:58 am

Keith, what were the main differences you heard between the 44s and the 5 Annis?

About ten grand...

JackD201 · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Aug 2013, 06:35 pm »

In case the general membership doesn't know, Keith and I are first cousins and business partners handling VSA among others here. I get to burn in and experiment with his loudspeakers.

Happy Birthday Keith!

Anyway, as I did run both the DB-99s and 44s with multiple amps, I would say the following. As far as amp compatibility goes, DB99 hands down. So if you are into flea power from the likes of 45s, 50s, 2a3s, 300Bs, the 99s are it. The advantages are not so clear cut with 6c33s, GM70s, 211s, 845s, T1610s and up. The 44 has the better tweeter and the XO tech inherited from the Annies and 9 and 11 Mk2s. The twin 9.5s of the 44 are quicker than the single 10 of the 99. Cabinet noise is significantly down as the 44s use the triple laminate.

Aesthetically, they are almost dead ringers with the grills on. As the 99s were meant primarily for flea triodes they are IMO less forgiving of push pull and solid state amplification in general but do sound great with smooth SS like those from Pass Labs, Accuphase, Valvet, Classe, Lamm, and the like.

Both benefit more from add on super tweeters than say the 5 series whose 29 series ring radiators do not need added extension.