[Al Garay]

The AKSA Nirvana amps was one of the best combinations I've heard with the Ellis 1801s. The best I think is Transcendent Sound OTL T8 amplifiers. Very close is Hypex UcD180s which bested the AKSA in terms of imaging and low-end but was not as sweet in the highs as the AKSA. The OTL was seductive, great sense of rhythm... I gues this is what others call PRAT. Not as good in terms of dynamics where the AKSAs really shine. But the T8 stereo amp's low-end was surprisingly good for 25watts.

If I still had the 1801s, I would be saving my pennies (make that lunches) for the Trascended Sound The Beast OTL,
http://www.transcendentsound.com/Beast%20OTL.htm

[Watson]

Is there any consensus on whether the AKSA 55 wpc sounds better than the 100 wpc (assuming a person lives in an apartment and doesn't need the extra power)?

[Rocket]

Hi Dave,

The aksa has a number of sonic attributes but its biggest strength is that it gets your foot tapping and i found it exciting to listen to.  At this stage in my system with several amps i have heard none can beat the aksa in that area.

The modded hca - 2 sounded excellent but does not have the same emotional impact as the aksa.

I have the opportunity to audition the spread spectrum technologies son of ampzilla and will let you know what i think of it if you like.  As i said in my previous post it would be great to be able to have a listen to different amps in an atmosphere that you organised   .

Regards

Rod

[David Ellis]

I believe the first SS amp that was set up was the parasound, which sounded pretty veiled and like alot of SS that I've listened to.

Yep, I forgot about this one.  I thought this amplifier represented the biggest disparity in performance.  IMO, all the other amplfiers were easily better.  The Parasound amp wasn't bad, it's just a commercial amplifier with standard-fare commercial guts.

The last was the modded Golden Tube amplifier. *ugh* Out of all but the parasound, this was my least favorite amp with the Ellis speakers.

Hmmm, strange, I thought the SE40 was better in the comparison test.  Next year we should do a direct comparison and discuss the differences between the AKSA and the Parasound.  I don't claim to have perfect ears, but they are generally pretty good.

Also, I now have the amplifier in my living room, and it sounds much better to my ears.  This will be confirmed this evening when my wife arrives home.  I am hearing new musical information in my recordings for the first-time.  It's really quite amazing      

There are a couple other variables extant - I think.

1.  The Golden Tube amp is essentially new, and has completely new tubes.  In Chicago the only the transformers, 20% of the PCB components, and 1 6SN7 tube were broke-in.  The rest of the amplifier had @ 10 hours of playing time.  @ 80% of the amplifier was new.

I generally don't subscribe to the break-in "propoganda", but there might be something happening.  After hearing Carl's wire presentation, I believe there is some truth to break-in.  The SE40 has a bunch of Black Gate capacitors too.  Many folks have told me these capacitors to change for the better.

2.  I am told that tubes DO move after break in, and the amplifier bias needs to be adjusted following the implementation of 7 new tubes in the amplifier.  The bias was adjusted initially, but after @10 hours, the bias should shift.  I will confirm this next weekend.  By this time, the amplifier should have @100 hours of playing time.

3.  I don't know if you were present for the feedback switch test.  I did this on Friday night, and later Saturday evening.  My SE40 has a global feedback switch.  The consensus was that the amp sounded better or different with the feedback OFF.  Probably 60% of folks (including me) thought it sounded better, and 40% of folks thought it sounded different.  Nobody thought the amplifier sounded worse with the feedback off.  

I am not making "excuses" for the amplifier performing poorly.  I offer these things simply because they might be a factor.  I was pleased with the amplifier as it performed in Chicago.  I am amazed at the performance in my living room - wow.

Is there any consensus on whether the AKSA 55 wpc sounds better than the 100 wpc (assuming a person lives in an apartment and doesn't need the extra power)?

Hugh Dean thinks the 55wpc should sound better.  However, there doesn't seem to be public consensus on this.  I have not performed an a/b test with these to amplifiers.  My AKSA 55wpc & 100wpc listening sessions were separated by @ 3 months.  Nonetheless, I am fairly familiar with the sound of my system and believe these amplifiers sounded... identical.  From a sound quality perspective, either would be fine.

I think with most 2-way speakers in the 85db/2.83 volt realm, the 55wpc is the correct choice - especially in an apartment.  My first good amplifier had 120wpc.  I never used this much power.  

Dave

[David Ellis]

If I still had the 1801s, I would be saving my pennies (make that lunches) for the Trascended Sound The Beast OTL,
http://www.transcendentsound.com/Beast%20OTL.htm

Yikes, that looks killer.  Do these folks live close to you... wait... they live pretty close to me.  KC isn't a significant drive.  I should visit them.

I have never listened to an OTL amp.

Dave

[Carl V]

Also, I now have the amplifier in my living room, and it sounds much better to my ears. This will be confirmed this evening when my wife arrives home. I am hearing new musical information in my recordings for the first-time. It's really quite amazing  

Are you able to compare & contrast the GT40 with the reworked
Dyna 70 ?

[David Ellis]

Are you able to compare & contrast the GT40 with the reworked
Dyna 70 ?

The words "compare and contrast" remind me of many college essay questions    .  Many of these were very exhaustive.  I'll refrain from such demeanor hererein.  I think Stereopile uses way too many words to describe something.

Consider that both amps are totally reworked.  Frank VanAlstine www.avahifi.com did the Dynaco/Ultimate 70.  Jeff Glowacki www.soniccraft.com did the Golden Tube SE40.  The SE40 sounded quite bad before modifications.

Comparing...

The only real difference is in the bass region of the ST70.  It's very lean and crisp.  I believe most folks would convey that it's too lean.  I thought the bass was fine, and indeed very tuneful.  The SE40 has the typical robust/fully bass found in most amplifiers.  

Aside from this, the SE40 has perhaps slightly better dynamics, lower noise, and a more... correct sound.  This remark is very true:

I am hearing new musical information in my recordings for the first-time. It's really quite amazing

Last night my wife listened and was very pleased.  She remarked, "wow, that Violin really sounds like a violoin".  She commented about several other areas too, and prefers the Golden tube SE40.

If you require more words, you are welcome to call.  I'll be home this evening.

Dave
402 991 8528

[gonefishin]

I generally don't subscribe to the break-in "propoganda", but there might be something happening. After hearing Carl's wire presentation, I believe there is some truth to break-in. The SE40 has a bunch of Black Gate capacitors too. Many folks have told me these capacitors to change for the better. ...

  While I try to stay out of the fantasy arena as well (except fantasy football...I'm hooked!  12 teams this year )  But what I heard at the Chicago Event  is oddly very close to what I've heard while breaking in blackgates.  The very same...(to me) odd effects and (almost unstable) sound.  huh.

    Another way to give the *passive* transformer based preamps a try is by using some Sowter 9395 or type 9335 attneuating transformers.  They're a bit less costly than the S&B.  Of course you have still got the rest of the parts that can add up as well.

   Take care,
      dan

[David Ellis]

But what I heard at the Chicago Event is oddly very close to what I've heard while breaking in blackgates. The very same...(to me) odd effects and (almost unstable) sound. huh.

Interesting... sure.  

I honestly don't know what I am intentionally listening for in this regard.  Maybe this will become clear to me when I hear the capacitors change for the better.  I currently have my speakers disconnected with 8 ohm resitors attached to the leads.  I have my system cycling with contant music applied. Perhaps the sound will change after @ 5 days of constant use.

I generally don't listen for imaging.  Sure, I know that violins are on the left and cellos are on the right.  I am also keenly aware of lead vocal position.  Aside from these, image stability is not my primary focus.  

I generally listen for instrumental detail, dynamics, and grit/noise.  In these regards, the SE40 is  more clear/better than anything else I have used in my system.  Electric pianos are VERY obviously electric pianos.  Violin's sound much more like violins.  I am hearing backup vocals in amazing detail.  

Dave

[DavidS]

I have enjoyed the discussion in this thread for past year or so.

I am running my Ellis 1801's with a PS Audio HCA-2 and a little passive pre called a Sono Silence.  The PS Audio has a reputation for great mids and highs but not much bass, and in my system this has very much been the case.  The passive was a major step forward (replacing a Mapletree pre in the spring) creating an almost magical combination of detail and airy top end sound.  Wonderful with accoustic music and female vocals.

This past spring I had a one day opportunity to match my speakers with Odyssey extreme monos.  Wow - the PS Audio is rated at 120 I think but the Odysseys had the Ellis's on their backs purring like I never heard them before.  Still lots of sweet sounding detail but now my woofers were doing things I didn't think they could or would do (I had been thinking a new sub) - was I ever wrong.  Truly a big dog taking my speakers for a walk and they were doing what they were told.

Next eye opener was last weekend and a borrowed pair of Audio Note J speakers - 92 db.  Suddenly my PS Audio amp had a match that had it singing at both ends of the scale.  Very nice speaker once you get past the looks and could happily find a home in my living room.

Was thinking there might be a big dog in Dave's Chicago listening room - but most of amps discussed seem mid powered.  Not sure if other Ellis speaker owners struggle with bass performance - upper bass is nice and detailed - but other than with Odysseys really no mid or sub bass from the speakers in my living room.  I am commited to my Ellis 1801's so thinking about being on the move with amps again - will keep reading this thread to see what is working for others.

My other stuff is Jolida cdplayer, blue note turntable with CIA phono pre, and audio note cables (all copper).

[MemphisJim]

I want to chime in about the SE40 that Dave has been so elequently describing. I did the SonicCraft DIY upgrade that used to be sold for $299 (no longer available). This upgrade doesn't get all that Dave's upgrade has, but I suspect I'm most of the way to Dave's amp. I agree with Dave when he mentions that in stock form, this amp isn't so hot. I'm not sure what all the hoopla was about 8-10 years ago. Sure the midrange sounded better than any SS gear I had, but the highs left much to be desired.

I put the new caps (including the black gates), resistors and diodes that came in the kit into the amp over the course of about 12 hours. Turned it on, biased it and hooked it up to my 1801's**. I was then STUNNED by what I heard. This amp seems to have it all. Highs are gorgeous and mids seem to be spot on. The amp even has killer bass.

It is now super, super simple to hear differences between cd's of the same recording but different mastering (i.e. mfsl vs standard issue). Stringed instruments sound great. You can hear/ feel the texture of the strings. The imaging is better. It's easier to pick out the various instruments in well recorded music.

I think I'm done looking for an amp, I just don't see finding something better for the small amount of money I'd be willing to pay. I was going to build an AKSA, but per the above list, I think I'll skip that.

My only issue with the amp is that it might be too bright**. I know that Dave has mentioned that running the speakers flat will tend to make most cd's hard to listen to. With this upgraded amp, he is correct. I'm wondering if the amp is now boosting the treble? Like Dave says, I've heard things in recordings that I've NEVER heard before. Breathing for one. I have one recording of instrumental music (jerry garcia - pizza tapes) and I can hear one of the players breathe. I can hear the conductor breathing during a low passage on one of the sacd living stereo re-releases (btw, these living stereo sacd's are to die for). In either case, I had never heard that before. Impressive.

Jim

**My 1801's are running flat. I don't remember what resistor combination I have, but I do know they are +0 dB on the tweeter.

[Al Garay]

Dave,

I highly recommend you check out Transcendent Sound gear. Bruce sounds like a guy who thinks like you do... is not impressed by fancy components and superflous maketing strategies. He has a loyal following who believe in his skills and ability to teach as he has for years from his books.  Heck, you can even catch a Chiefs game... they're having a good season and not making headline news about their off-field escapades.

Regarding AKSA 55 versus 100, if you like to listen to jazz, orchestral music at mid 80 db volume, then the 55 watt amp is fine. If you, like me, like to put on some BTO and play HT movies like Batman Begins (good movie) and concerts such as Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" at higher volumes, then you will appreciate having the 100 watt amplifier.

Have fun,

Al

[gonefishin]

 I generally listen for instrumental detail, dynamics, and grit/noise. In these regards, the SE40 is more clear/better than anything else I have used in my system. Electric pianos are VERY obviously electric pianos. Violin's sound much more like violins. I am hearing backup vocals in amazing detail. ...

    Cool!  Sounds like you found a good match for your speaker, room and self.  Few people are so lucky.  Congrats.


dan

[David Ellis]

Dan,

I was thinking more about the way we/I conducted the in-room test, and I might have been biased.  Since I heard these amplifiers in my listening room I "knew" what to expect.  What do you think about using blindfolds next year?  This would consume a bit more time, but I think would provide more tangible results.

Al,

For now, I'll continue to use the passive units (Creek and Endler).  Eventually I may try a S&B 102, but these are a bit expensive.

Jim,

I think our amplifiers are extremely similar.  I have a few more switches though.  

I think I'm done looking for an amp, I just don't see finding something better for the small amount of money I'd be willing to pay. I was going to build an AKSA, but per the above list, I think I'll skip that.

Me too.

[teiki arii]

Hello Davis,
As I know that Odyssey mono stratos extreme plays fine with Dynaudio S1.4, what about these ampli with Ellis 1801b since I have the Cayin SC-6LS (CV4024, CV4003)? I would like to know if you have an experience on UCD modules -class D- as well?
Thank you very much for your advise,
best regards.

PS: I have listened to the modified Jolida JD-302B of pemo, it is marvellous but I am looking for SS not DIY ampli.

[David Ellis]

I have never heard any of the Odyssey gear.  I have never heard any of the Class D stuff in my living room.  Hence, these comments are 2nd hand comments from customer feedback, and industry professional advice.

1.  The Class D stuff can sound good, but not great.

2.  The Odyssey stuff can sound can sound good, and there was some rumor of actually using good parts inside Odysey amplifiers.  This happened a few years ago with one amplifier, but this amplifier was only partially replicated for the masses.  I don't know if a fully tweaked Odysey amplifier exists.  Such an amplifier would have high zoot capacitors, diodes, resistors etc..  In this case the cost should triple, and the sound quality should improve considerably.

I believe a partially upgraded Odyssey amplifier acutally happened, but have NOT followed this development.  Maybe Odyssey actually did start spending very serious $$ under the hood of their amplifiers.  I truly don't know.

You will have to ask Odyssey about the parts quality in his amplifiers.  Specifically, does he use Black Gate Capacitors, Elna Cerafine, or any of the other good capacitors.  Does he apply any Metallized poly bypass capacitors in the power supply.  Does he use good IXYS Hexfreds or Harris superfast diodes etc etc.

In all of this, I will offer that about 40% of my customers use "good" consumer grade source gear - on par with Dennon, Rotel, NAD, Adcaom and such.  Certainly the 1801 performs just fine with this source gear.  I will also offer that my biggest "fans" and most enthusiastic customers use very good source gear with very high quality parts under the hood.  

I'll ask Odyssey if he has any input on this matter.

[teiki arii]

Thank you Dave.

This weekend I listened to a 5 channel UcD180 amplifier that Kevin Haskins from diycable.com built. Tried it out with Adires' new line of speakers and Andy's (awm) 1801.
mac, Andy and I commented that we had not heard the 1801's with better SLAM on the low end. The digital amps puts out much more output  from the Excel woofer. What also surprised us was the better imaging which was already very good with the AKSA N. With the Hypex, it was wider. No fancy caps, just TSU Panasonics and one large single to ...

I will hear the Ellis 1801b with an UCD400 dual mono by next month. I will tell you if I would be liking it. Still happy with your UCD180?
Best regards.

[David Ellis]

I just turned on my SE40 after a week of soaking through a resistor load to work the amps new guts & Black Gates.  I re-biased the amp too.

I now totally understand what you were referring to with regard to the 2-dimensional sound of the SE40 at the show.  Relatively speaking, the amp was very 2-dimensional at the show.  Things have changed significantly.  The inner detail and depth is much better now.

I didn't really think the sound would change this much.  I am now in full-agreement with those who believe the components and Black Gate capacitors need time to break-in.

Dave

[gonefishin]

Dan,

I was thinking more about the way we/I conducted the in-room test, and I might have been biased.  Since I heard these amplifiers in my listening room I "knew" what to expect.  What do you think about using blindfolds next year?  This would consume a bit more time, but I think would provide more tangible results.


 

Myself...I'd tend to move the other way...and just continue to keep things moving well. Keeping people not only interested...but in their seats for a good majority of the time.

Conclusions can and will be made...but I'd leave that to the individuals to take with them. My opinion is that there is way too much eye scanning and conjecture that is involved to come to any conclusion of what is heard.

I know I can be a pain in the butt...but I like things to be easy  not hard  


*aside* I can remember during one of the Lima shows...An audio reviewer happened to be in the same room I was in, listening to some tubes and AudioNotes. Decent sound.

  When the guy hosting the room decided to put some tube dampers on the input/driver tubes of the amp. When the (room) host was done putting them on,he asked what people thought. The audio reviewer quickly answered...Oh yeah. There's a definite improvement in soundstage. Well, soon after everyone else shook their heads in agreement.

Since people were talking thru this entire experience...and the fact that I was off center...I couldn't comment if there was a difference either way. But the one thing I couldn't figure out,was how the audio reviewer could have reached any conclusion at all...especially regarding soundstage. He was sitting with only one ear facing the speakers...and the other ear facing the rear wall. He was also the person that was talking non-stop...not even stopping to listen to the sound that he just commented that had improved. But yet the other shaking heads stilled followed his comments.  I just sat there with a chuckle on my face.

*back on topic*  Heck with it(I say)...keep things fun! But that's just my thinking...which always isn't so poular.

    dan

[rez]

To follow up a bit on Al's thoughts - I would also be very interested in hearing from anyone who has built one of the Transcendent Sound ggd preamps with increased interest for the results when driving an aksa and the 1801b's.  
Roman