[ionyou2002]

Digital amped receivers, which one do you recommend?

So far I've looked at the Panny SA-XR25,  JVC RX F10, Panny SAXR45.

I'm intrigued by the JVC's digital equalizer, but I found a good price on a refurb Panasonic SA XR25. Does the panny unit have an equalizer? do I even need one? Willl the tone controls (bass treble)  be enough? Is it a good idea to go with a refurb unit in terms of longevity?

I'm on a budget, I'd like to go as low as possible but I can afford either unit.

thanks all and hey this is my 1st post here after lurking for a couple of days reading some interesting threads on this board especially the JVC RXF10 thread.

[Rob Babcock]

Welcome to AC!     Well, unless you mean "Tripath" in the generic sense (eg all tissues are Kleenex, all petroleum jelly is Vaseline) the Panny receivers don't use Tripaths at all.  They are digital but based on a Texas Instruments module.

It's hard to know which route to go.  Every brand/type has its fans.  Here's a short list in the order of AC Popularity:

1.  Panasonic-  The '45 is widely considered the better of the two models, with the '25 being the step-down model.  The '45 has a better power supply.  The "Party Mode" allows passive biamping with just one unit.  The Panny's maintain a totally digital path right to the speakers.  Considered very accurate & precise, although a few have called it "cold" sounding.

2.  JVC-  This one's a newcomer, and debatebly has a Tripath module or something very much like it.  This one has something akin to "Party Mode", too, and allows biamping.  Decent connectivity if you get the newer model, but the older one lacks component input.  JVCs receivers have been described here as "warmer" and more "tubelike", perhaps at the expense of absolute accuracy.  Much beloved by Tripath fans.

3.  Sony-  The Sony's have gotten really mixed reviews here.  Some of the cheaper "Dream Systems" have been widely praised by AC'ers, but the concencus doesn't appear too favorable for the ES-2000 and up.  Still, the new S-Master Pro module is supposed to maintain a digital signal all the way to output, albeit resampled to 1 bit.  I must note at least one ACer has stated the Sony gave him some of the best sound he's ever heard.

4.  Harmon Kardon-  For whatever reason, no one here seems very enthused with their models.  The sound is reportedly not very good, and they're fairly expensive to boot.  Caveat emptor...

5.  Kenwood-  I rank this last only because no one here has yet had the opportunity to hear one.  Dmason, our resident Digital Amp Guru, has one on order & hopefully will clue us in as soon as he gets it burned in (although that could take some time- Digital Amps are notorious for requiring very lengthy burning in).

That's it in a nutshell, my rundown of digital receivers.  I probably forgot one, but if so someone will chime in.

[ionyou2002]

thanks for the warm welcome and reply Rob.

 I just noticed the Panasonic SA XR50 is that just a 45 with a few more bells and whistles or is there more to it than that?  

heh these smiley faces are nice, I like the dancing ones fits the theme of this site.  

Yes sorry when i said tripath I meant digital amps I changed that title as soon as I saw it. I like the accurate & precise description for the panasonic models but then the warmer sound of the JVC sounds intriguing too. I like a bit more bass than perhaps the avg person but wouldn't any receiver be able to adjust to personal taste by fiddling with the EQ or tone controls?

Please elaborate on warm vs cold, is it just a matter of bass over treble or vice-versa?

[TheChairGuy]

thanks for the warm welcome and reply Rob.

 I just noticed the Panasonic SA XR50 is that just a 45 with a few more bells and whistles or is there more to it than that?  

heh these smiley faces are nice, I like the dancing ones fits the theme of this site.  

Yes sorry when i said tripath I meant digital amps I changed that title as soon as I saw it. I like the accurate & precise description for the panasonic models but then the warmer sound of the JVC sounds intriguing too. I lik ...

Hey ionyou2002,

I have not heard any of the mentioned digi receivers except for the JVC RX-ES1sl (earlier 5.1 version of F10) for $179.00.

To correct Rob a bit, it does have Component DBS and DVD inputs, as well as digital coax inputs.  Digi coax sounded fine, too.

Not sure if the JVC has Tripath chips, most of us seem to think otherwise...that it is a JVC solution to digital amplification.

I am not sure what s warm, accurate or what-not, but the JVC is interesting becasue it uses hybrid amplification.  Digital (typically excllent bass and tube like mids) and solid state (better treble response) to achieve it's sound quality.

It largely hits in all areas....it is pretty great - I still shake my head at thigns it can do for so little.  I can recommned it heartily for $179.  You'll have plenty of money to spend on better quality DVD/CDP for yourself...where the dollars may be beter placed that you save on teh JVC.  It's not by any means perfect, but it is darn good and may be a fine platform to improve upon with better parts, etc.

Give it 300++ hours to break in, and I think you will be very pleased with your purchase.  The F10 looks similar, is 6.1 and has a couple other features for $100 more.  It is mosly irrelevent to me as I use only 2 channels for listening.

Good luck...you will be getting alot of tunes for your money these days with most digi receivers....

[Rob Babcock]

That's good to know, Chairguy.  I knew it had the full complement of digital inputs, but I didn't think it had component.  I the  JVC RX-ES1s the one you have?  I just might spring for one myself.  My system in my bedroom would be the likely home, and there I wouldn't need component vid now, but I plan to buy a new TV (for gaming, of course!) and then I'll want to be able to switch my Xbox & P2.

The Panasonic SA XR50 is basically a new model that replaces the older  '25.  Soon a new model (I think it's called the SA XR70) will come out to replace the now-discontinued '45.  That's the crappy deal- mass market type companies change model lines like you change underwear.  No one really knows yet if the new receiver will better, the same or totally lacking in the "magic" that made the '45 so "legendary."

[Andrew JC]

Ionyou2002, Rob did an excellent job covering the current crop of digital receivers. I have the Panasonic SA-XR25. I originally bought this for a bedroom system I was putting together. However I put this in my main system for break in and to hear what all the buzz was about. To make a long story short it replaced my current receiver an Outlaw Audio 1050. To put things in to perspective the Outlaw 1050 was $599 I purchased it, the Pannny was about $125.  For the money the Panny is a steal.  Now I envy the people that have the Panny 50 and 45. My big complaint I have against the XR25 is the speaker connections stink. The person who created spring clips should be dragged out in the streets and have his balls cut off with toe nail clippers!!!    The binding posts are nothing to write home about. I have Zu speaker cables and the bananas plugs do not fit well either. I whish I knew the binding post Wayne was using to mod the Panny’s with. I would be tempted to change them myself. Well best of luck….andy.

[Rob Babcock]

Quick question for The Chair Guy or Dmason- what type of speaker connectors does the JVC RX-ES1SL have?  Binding posts or spring clips?

[Lopez]

Right - what kind of speaker connectors, and also what are the crossover points for the bass management on the JVC?  Couldn't find this in the other thread devoted to it.  Also, JVC doesn't have this model on their webpage.

A picture of the back of the unit would be super-cool as well...

[Wayne1]

The binding posts are nothing to write home about. I have Zu speaker cables and the bananas plugs do not fit well either. I whish I knew the binding post Wayne was using to mod the Panny’s with. I would be tempted to change them myself. Well best of luck….andy.

There is more to it then just the binding posts. The holes cut in the chassis are squares. Most replacement binding posts are circles. The binding posts and connections to the circuit board are all one item. You would have to remove the power supply board, unsolder the speaker connectors, solder wires in place, fabricate a plate to go on the back panel and then mount the binding posts and attatch them to the wires coming from the circuit board.

I had custom plates made to fit the SA-XR45 and 25 for binding post replacements.

I do offer partial mods for those who do not want to go all out on the Panny receivers Link to partial Panny mods

[Rob Babcock]

How many binding posts do you add with your partial mod pack, Wayne?  And can you still use all five speaker outputs?

[Wayne1]

Rob,

The Panny SA-XR25 and 45 come out of the factory with  6 channels of amplification and a line level sub output. There is only enough room on the back of the "barge" to fit 5 pair of binding posts along with the IEC connector. I do not hook up the center rear channel.

[Rob Babcock]

Ah, I'd forgotten it had 6 channels!     I'd never miss the 6th I reckon.

Not to put you on the spot, but how much improvement does the partial mod get you?  If stock is a 5, and the "full monty" is a ten, where would you rate the partial?

Thanks.

[Wayne1]

Rob, That is kinda hard to say. I did notice a very big difference with the IEC and speaker wire and connector changes. I would say it is 7.5 to 8 . The power supply mods do add dynamics and a sense of ease to the over all sound.

If you would be thinking of modding a little at a time, I would suggest the speaker connectors and IEC first. Then you might consider the power supply mods. If you send it back for the PS mods, you can also get the analog section upgrade and the digital input section worked on at the same time for an additional $100.00.

[Rob Babcock]

Thanks.  I realize a "rating" is tough, just trying to guage whether it's worth it to buy a '25.  You know the way it works- when there were plenty of '45s I was broke, and now I can't find one.  

I'm trying to decide between a JVC and a Panny '25.

[Andrew JC]

Wayne, Great work as usual. The “procedure” looks like it’s beyond my abilities. I sent you a PM. Rob yesterday I did a search on froogle for the 45 and a few places did show up. Not sure if they are just mom and pa shops that have not updated their webpage. I whish I could give you some advice on the JVC but I have not listened to one. Like a said before the 25 for $130-150 is sweet. JandR has them but I do not know what their return policy is.

[jswallac]

One more digital amp to add to the list.  The Pioneer Elite EX500.  It is actually a package that also includes what appears to be a rebadged Pioneer 563A universal player.

[Red Dragon Audio]

Thanks.  I realize a "rating" is tough, just trying to guage whether it's worth it to buy a '25.  You know the way it works- when there were plenty of '45s I was broke, and now I can't find one.  

I'm trying to decide between a JVC and a Panny '25.

I owned both the 25 and 45 at the same time.  Personally I thought it was clear as day that the 45 sounded better.

If you can wait and are persistant XR45's have shown up on audiogon from time to time.