[jb26]

Hi All,

I have a set up with an integrated providing to a set of low sensitivity speakers.  I'm happy with it, but struggle to play at loud volumes, and having checked the specs realize that the integrated is underpowered for the speakers.  To solve this I could either add a power amp to the system, or sell these speakers and buy more sensitive and better matched speakers.  I like both my amp and speakers as separate components, they just might not be that well matched.  My questions:

1. While talking in generalities (ie non-brand specific), what are he likely outcomes, advantages/disadvantages of taking one path or the other.

2.  I can match wpc and ohms quite easily off the specs, but what is the role of gain and does it need matching?

3. What are recommended power amps and speakers at a budget of $1000 and $2000?

Unfortunately I won't be able to take advantage of in home trials because I live outside the US.

Thanks,

James

[mca]

What integrated and speakers do you have now?

[jb26]

Hi,

I have ascend acoustic Sierra-1 with nrt upgrade specs: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1specs.html

And virtue sensation m901 with 30/130 PSU or battery, specs: http://store.virtueaudio.com/product-p/vrtu-ia-ssm901-pbf-1.htm

James

[ricardojoa]

If you like the sound of the sierra, then a new amp with more watts is the way to go but dont expect to blast out. If you are looing for more loundness, is easier to get from a high sensitive speaker.
A new speaker with high sensitivity will change the sound though.

[JLM]

Both speaker and amp are well respected, the Sierra more so (outside A/C).  I've owned the original Ascend Acoustics (CBM-170) from soon after they opened for business and still love them, but the rather low efficiency of the Sierra has always given me pause.  But I take vendor specs with a grain of salt, not that Ascend Acoustics would exaggerate but many do.  I'm sure part of the low efficiency and largish size (for the stand mount) is to achieve the relatively low bass output, which is great for a smaller room.  My experience is that most lower efficiency speakers aren't terribly dynamic (producing fast swings between quiet/loud passages on small or large scales micro/macro dynamics), but that really high efficiency speakers have lack of deep bass and a variety of colorations-midbass boom, midrange nasal thinness, cabinet induced sound, etc.).  IMO the ideal speaker efficiency range (90 - 95 dB/w/m) to balance between dynamics and colorations.  But note that there is no perfect speaker.  If the Sierra fits your needs, I'd keep them.  Finding a comparable, higher efficiency speaker would not be easy, and could cost much more.

OTOH quality wattage is relatively cheap.  Look for beefy (big/heavy) power supplies.  And keep in mind that speaker damage is more apt to come from a distorted signal from an overloaded amp than a clean peak signal that exceeds the speaker rating.  Besides speaker safety I believe that an amp must be "big enough" to provide a commanding grip on the speakers to give proper control and better resolution.  Note that the relationship between watts of loudness is not one to one.  It takes ten times the power (watts) to double the apparent loudness (sound pressure level).  I seriously doubt you've heard the Sierras at their best.

The Virtue site offered Ascend Acoustics, but did not recommend your pairing for the very reasons you stated (so your not off base on your observations, just overly optimistic).

[jb26]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your help so far, seems the power amp is the way to go.

I've looked around and found the following in price-comparable components (all new, prices inc shipping outside US, @ 8ohms):

Parasound a23 125wpc usd1000
Emotiva xpa2 300wpc usd1200
Emotiva xpa200 150wpc usd 650

The para seems slightly better reviewed.  I suspect the xpa2 is overkill wpc.

Thoughts on which would be the best add?

James

[JLM]

Just to confuse you more   ....

Have you considered active speakers (low voltage crossover feeding one channel of amplification per driver, all housed inside the speaker cabinet)?  Not to be confused with powered speakers that simply put a power amp inside a passive (normal home use speaker).  Several advantages:

1. Low voltage crossover can be more precisely designed/sophisticated, even incorporate DSP (that among other things can extend bass at lower spls);

2. Designer matched amp to each driver (so you don't have to hunt for what works best with what);

3. Amps will have a much easier job (and 'see' the driver load much better) without having to go through a crossover so they can be lower wattage;

4. All this results in greatly improved micro/macro dynamics;

5. Produces extremely flat frequency response (which helps the sound 'make sense' vs emphasizing/de-emphasizing some notes);

6. Provides unbelievable bass output/frequency extension for the given cabinet size.

Most active speakers are studio monitors (small, 2-way designs).  As such their primary job is to be extremely revealing of flaws, coming across as dry and analytical in a near field setting versus home use/audiophile speakers that frankly are purposed for in-room enjoyment (with a degree of blissful ignorance and tasteful colorations).  A couple of well regarded studio monitors in the ballpark of your price range would be Event 20/20 BAS ($900/pair, F3=35 Hz) and Equator D5 ($400/pair, coaxial drivers with incredible imaging).  Home use monitors include KEF X300A ($800/pair, with DAC) and Paradigm A2 ($600/pair, lots of connectivity options, DSP).

About 12 years ago I A/B auditioned Paradigm Studio 20 ($800/pair, 2-way passive standmounts) versus Paradigm Active 20 ($1600/pair, same drivers/cabinet).  There was no competition.  Bystanders were gobsmacked.  Dynamics, resolution, bass output were all incredible.  The Active 20 outperformed the Paradigm Studio 80 ($1600/pair floor standers) in all but bass (where it matched them).  It was one of very few audio epiphanies over my 40+ audio years.

Frankly what stops most consumers from going active is losing the 'fun' of the equipment hunt, a degree of the hobby aspect of audio, and having as many toys to look at/play with.  But active monitors make sense with the next generation that already have a digital source (computer/DVD/etc.) and want honest/bottom line/high value gear to fit into smaller settings.

[jb26]

Hi JlM,

Thanks for the active speaker suggestion, I hadn't understood the distinction between active a powered before (ie an amp per driver).  It instinctively makes a lot of sense to me, as the amps 'must' match so long as the company is competent (ie every idea can be implemented badly).

In that case it would be a matter of buying actives, and selling my current amp and speakers, right?

Am I right in then saying the dac connects directly to the speakers via RCA or Xlr, and the speakers each have a power cord to the wall?

James

[srb]

In that case it would be a matter of buying actives, and selling my current amp and speakers, right?

It depends on how many sources you have.  If you have multiple analog sources you may want to use your current amp as a preamp for input switching and remote volume.  If you only have a single source that has its own volume control or multiple digital sources fed into a volume controlled DAC, you might not need it.  However if the active speakers don't have line outputs and you want to add a subwoofer, you may also want to use your current amp with its mono subwoofer output to drive the subwoofer.

Am I right in then saying the dac connects directly to the speakers via RCA or Xlr, and the speakers each have a power cord to the wall?

Each speaker has it's own pair of amplifiers and power connection to an AC receptacle.

Pro sound monitors often don't have RCA inputs and may require an adapter or proper cable.  For example

-  Event 20/20 BAS has an XLR input only that would require an XLR > RCA adapter or RCA > XLR cable

-  Equator D5 has both XLR and TRS 1/4" phone inputs.  The TRS is used for unbalanced input and would require a 1/4" > RCA adapter or RCA > 1/4" phone plug cable.

-  KEF X300A has built-in 24/96 DACs and has USB and analog 3.5mm inputs.  There is a DAC in each speaker and therefore a USB cable is needed to connect between them.  Because the analog input digitizes the signal, I would probably only select this model for use with a computer.

Pro active studio monitors are often optimized for near field use and depending on the particular speaker, may not be quite as optimal at far field listening distances.

There are also active speakers designed specifically for home use such as the Dynaudio Focus 110A with RCA inputs and veneered cabinets.

Steve

[avahifi]

Since you like your speakers, the simple thing to do is get a really good integrated power amp with adequate power to drive them and with great musical performance.

Also, since your speakers are small in size and are a two way design with a small woofer, I doubt if they will be really happy with much more than 100 watts per channel driving them.  87 dB and 8 ohms says they are medium efficiency speakers and the small size says they probably won't be comfortable being driven LOUD!

You can find the amp you need new for well under your $2000 upper limit.  My advice, follow the KISS theory  (keep it simple stupid) and don't make your system any more complex then necessary.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[JLM]

Sorry I didn't see your budget was up to $2000 USD.  I'd add Quad 9AS ($1300/pair, RCA/front mini plug/USB/coax/toslink inputs, single/front volume/input controls, DAC (accepts up to 24/192 inputs), subwoofer output, 65-23,000 Hz, 2-way ported design, 12"Hx6"Wx 8.6"D, real wood veneer, remote control, intended for home use) to your list of (highly) desirable active speakers.  Would replace passive speakers, integrated amp, and DAC.  Accommodates analog (would need a phone pre-amp to play vinyl), MP3, and 3 digital sources.  All inputs are in the base of the master speaker, with a special cable feeding the slave speaker (both speakers have their own amplifiers).  At this price, you'd have money left for a nice sub.