[Vapor Audio]

So after years of refusal to move back into the stone ages, I finally have a shellac-spinner in my possession.  It's a Rega Planar 3 with a  Grace 707 arm and Supex SD-900 ... and for what it's worth, the owner said had been 'shaved', whatever that means    Is this something that's going to give me decent sound?  Should I even think about upgrading it, or is it not worth putting any money into?  The wire loom I think I'm going to have to upgrade, it's just plain nasty ... but I've never wired a tonearm, and apparently Grace's have unique DIN connectors that are hard to find. 

So now I'm hoping for help from the Geriatric Audio Snobs (GAS) to help me setup this befuddling device, and to possibly borrow a phono stage.  Oh, and if anybody knows an app that will let me control this thing from my Android, that'd be great too! 

[Scott F.]

Geriatric Audio Snobs (GAS)

Hey, we resemble that remark 

for your table, the Planar 3 is OKish. Not great, not bad, just OK. the Grace isn't a bad arm at all providing you mate it to the right cartridge. Again, not great but much better than some. The Supex could be really nice providing it's been retipped or hasn't been used much.

One thing you'll need is a step up transformer or a MC phono-stage. That cart (I believe) is a low output MC. I've got all of my phono-stages in use unfortunately I don't have a spare.

I'll say this and I'm sure the other (local) guys will mostly agree, when it comes to vinyl, go big or go home. If you try to champagne sound on beer budget, you will be wasting your time and money. I know some on AC will disagree but I know you, your taste and minimum requirements for sound quality. You ain't gunna get where you expect to be, on the cheap. With the level that I think you are going after, plan on investing 2-4k to get there...maybe more.

I'd start with a good phonostage. After that upgrade the table then after that upgrade the arm. All of that is predicated on the cartridge being in decent shape. With the table and arm upgrade you will find the background noise will reduce significantly and the sound stage will open and focus will get much better.

[thunderbrick]

Since we are talking "stone age", I have a Marcoff step-up device that you can try, but it'll be a while before I find myself running up I-44 to STL.

[Vapor Audio]

Thanks Scott, about what I expected to hear ... a bit of pertinent info I left out

- this table was given to me
- I don't expect this to blow me away, or be an end of the road

What I'm looking to find out is if a turntable is something I want to pursue or not, if the inconvenience is worth the result.  What I'm hoping is this setup will be good enough for me to find that out, maybe not. 

If I do enjoy it I'll get the BMC phono stage, since I am a BMC dealer.  But I'd rather not spend those bucks just yet, a get me running loaner would be perfect if somebody has a workable solution not in use. 

And what sort of setup do I need to do before use?  It's been sitting in storage for years.  How can I tell what sort of condition the cart is in? 

[Blackmore]

Bob Jackson has my old Graham Slee 2 that he doesn't need anymore.  You're sure welcome to use it, but you'll need to get a step up device like the Marcoff Thunderbrick mentioned.  I have some alignment jigs and digital scales to help with setting it up. 

Not bad for a bunch of geriatrics.....now, get off my lawn

[Scott F.]

I've got a USB microscope we could use to check the stylus. Maybe you could talk 'brick' into mailing the step up device to you since it will be a while before he's back in town. That would just cost you shipping. Lemme call a bud of mine who borrowed one of my Slee's and see if he can ship it back. It's essentially the 2 but its for LOMCs.

I don't know about Mark but I want to hear the Nimbus. Maybe we could come by and get your table setup and give them a listen. While I'm there I could grab those tweeters too.

[thunderbrick]

Can do!  PM your address and I'll drop it in the mail in the morning.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Yes, I've got the Graham Slee II that Mark gave me. It's yours.
You can run by tonight, after 6:00. I even have some of that Shock Top I'll give ya.

[Vapor Audio]

Yes, I've got the Graham Slee II that Mark gave me. It's yours.
You can run by tonight, after 6:00. I even have some of that Shock Top I'll give ya.

So, I do still need a SUT with this one, right?  Or can I try it without one and see what sort of output I get?  If I do need one, should I wait for you Scott and see if your Slee for low output carts becomes available?

Went from dead in the water to overwhelmed by options 

I'll come down tonight Bob. 

[Scott F.]

Yep, you'll need a SUT with that cart. With a suspected output of .1mV, you'll barely be able to hear it with just Blackmore's Graham Amp 2. I'd go ahead and get it and 'bricks SUT. When I get the Slee Fanfare 3 in, it will give you another flavor to ponder.

When you're ready to hear what differences a true high end head amp and phonostage make, I can bring over the Reflex and the Elevator. Maybe you could talk Mark into bringing the Fosgate. I haven't done a side by side but since its tubed, I've got a feeling it will best my Slees. This is the stage where vinyl starts to get really expensive. Once you hear the difference that rabbit hole gets really deep.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Actually Ryan, make it 6:30.
I'll be finished eating dinner by then. 

[Baumli]

Dear Vapor Audio,

Now at the age of 65, I don't often set up turntables anymore. (A steady hand and a good eye are essential for this job!) Plus I just don't have the time. But I've probably set up about 200 in my life--and by set up, I don't mean just putting on a cartridge, I mean doing the whole thing. I've had experience with both your tonearm and table, but not with your cartridge. How far you want to go is up to you, and many recommendations could be made, but I would make three primarily: First, rewire the tonearm. That will be the biggest improvement. Cardas wire is readily available and is very good. Second, put really good oil in that bearing well but only after cleaning it completely. Use any of the good recommended oils, but for God's sake don't use home-brew black oil or you'll ruin the bearing. Also, keep in mind that the motor of the Rega is not really shielded, so a really low-output cartridge is likely to give you a lot of hum no matter what headamp you use. I'd recommend going with a higher output cartridge, even if it be a relatively cheap one like a Shure or Grado "Gold." Or better yet, a Dynavector 10-X or an Ortophon "Bronze."

Also, maybe most important of all, get a good record-cleaning machine. Cost for performance, I prefer the VPI 16.5 and am still using one I bought more than 20 years ago.

Good luck. LPs are labor-intensive, but the results are worth it. I agree with Scott--consider it a major commitment. But also keep in mind that some relatively small upgrades can give you considerably better sound that any digital ever will. But, I really do emphasize: I don't think you'll ever get a .1 mV output cartridge to work with a Rega.

Cheers,

Francis Baumli

[daves]

If one of the MC phono preamps would become available, I would be interested to see if I can get a higher level output than what the Acuphase E202 is delivering. The cart is a Denon DL301, which is a relatively high output MC, but the Acuphase just isn't driving things well. 

[Vapor Audio]

Well, I'm getting some pretty decent sound right now.  I definitely needed the Markof step-up, just not enough output with just the Gram Slee.  This morning I took the rubber feet off and installed some steel spikes and it made a nice improvement, bigger stage and better center focus.  But there's an edge in the upper midrange that needs to get worked out. 

Right now it's hard to draw any conclusions because I haven't made any adjustments to the arm.  It also has a 30 year old belt on it.  So I have no idea if the arm is even close to being adjusted properly, my guess is it isn't ... the needle makes about a 15 degree angle where it contacts the record.  Good news is it looks as though the arm is complete, the anti-skate weight is there as is the counterweight assembly.  I also cleaned the bearing well this morning and the bearing looks as though it needs replaced.  It has some roughness on one side, and that side is also totally discolored brown. 

So next is get a belt and bearing ordered, also wire for the arm.  After that's done hopefully somebody can help me set this thing up.  Beer's on me, and we can listen to the Nimbus 

[catastrofe]

Don't forget I have a nice Air Tight PC-1 for sale. . .

[Bob in St. Louis]

... the needle makes about a 15 degree angle where it contacts the record.....

After Scott "tuned up" my wonderful sounding AR-XA, I promptly put it into storage for a couple years.

When I got it out, it sounded like hammered shit*. Took me awhile, but I noticed the needle was cocked over to one side.
After replacing it, the sound was improved greatly.

So yea, I've searched deep into my vinyl noob database for a solution to your conundrum and it says the needle should point due south.     

Bob

* My new favorite term for describing music that is unlistenable. Thanks for that fellas. 

[Vapor Audio]

Don't forget I have a nice Air Tight PC-1 for sale. . .

I've eyeballed that, would love to give it a spin ... ultimately too steep for a poor schmuck like me though.  Seriously though, if I close a fee sales and it's still available, I'll give you a ring!

[catastrofe]

This is a great phono stage:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=118080.0

[Vapor Audio]

... it sounded like hammered shit*

* My new favorite term for describing music that is unlistenable. Thanks for that fellas.

Maybe I need to get that MiniDSP out again to remind myself what that sounds like 

[Bob in St. Louis]