KENWOOD Receiver VRS-7100 with Digital Amps

Rob Babcock · « **on:** 18 Jul 2004, 10:06 am »

Has anyone heard the KENWOOD Fineline Gaming Audio/Video Receiver VRS-7100? Okay, it's got a really stupid name! But has anyone listened to it? Does anyone know the specifics? You know, the usual suspects- what flavor of amp, does is accept a digital signal and keep it digital w/o any conversions, etc etc. I'm of course mostly curious about the sound & where it ranks against the Panny, JVC & Sony.

At first blush, this would seem to be a serious chunk of hardware (relative to what we normally see with digital receivers). If the power rating is even close to honest 130 Watts is pretty good grunt for a cheap jobbie like this.

Any comments, Dmason?

http://www.electronicscity.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_80&products_id=597[/code]

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Jul 2004, 10:44 pm »

Oh, yeah- it looks like a barge, too! I smell a conspiracy.

csero · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Jul 2004, 11:24 pm »

PurePath means it is an other incarnation of the TI Equibit amps, like the Panasonic, KiSS etc.
130W means the PS voltage possibliy went from the 42V the Pana use to 50V.

Csero

Dmason · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Jul 2004, 11:36 pm »

Price seems pretty good. Looks like real metal and everything, looks good enough to suspend paint operations. This product launched at $499 some months ago. I like the promise of 100 watts/8Ohms, mo betta there.

Soooo, I ordered one. Should be here Thursday.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Jul 2004, 11:47 pm »

Great! I think I'll let you be the guinea pi...er, I mean, do the research!

If Csero is correct, maybe this one maintains a pure digital path. I like the idea of a wee bit more power (a true 100 @ 8 ohms as opposed to probably 75- I know, that's not many dB...) and it's a bit larger, so connections are probably less cramped.

Who'd have known that we'd one day be looking at Kenwood, Panasonic & JVC to give us our bleeding high end products!

AphileEarlyAdopter · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 12:26 am »

The Kenwood, I guess, actually uses the same TI chipsets as the Panasonic XR50. The 130W is with high distortion at 10%, I think. Basically the same chipsets overdriven. And it does not seem to have a detachable power cord or accept 192Khz/24bit.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 03:19 am »

Quote from: Dmason

Price seems pretty good. Looks like real metal and everything, looks good enough to suspend paint operations. This product launched at $499 some months ago. I like the promise of 100 watts/8Ohms, mo betta there.

Soooo, I ordered one. Should be here Thursday.

Dr. Dmason, you da' digi man

brj · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 03:51 am »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

If Csero is correct, maybe this one maintains a pure digital path.

Uh oh... did I miss a memo? Which digital receiver are you implying does not maintain a pure digital path?

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 04:19 am »

For starters, no current receiver with a Tripath chip will do so. Part of the module is a DAC, and as far as I know the newer Tripath amps that accept a digital signal aren't in use yet. Perhaps Dmason would know more.

It's also been speculated that the JVC unit has a conversion cycle ahead of the output.

The first Sonys, pre-S Master Pro's, also had a conversion cycle before output.

Dmason · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 05:01 am »

The only "digital" amplifier in discussion is the TI "PurePath" architecture, which accepts a digital signal and keeps it as such right up to the speakers terminals. The rest have analogue output devices, and use a digital "carrier" signal to tell the transistors what to do in terms of digital switching, instead of switching on/off, they switch in binary. They do not use "DAC"s as such but produce a digital signal which controls the analogue one, in the simplest terms. Refer to Tripath's site for a real explanation.

If you do a search on "purepath" and "Texas Instruments" there is a very well written, and interesting white paper on the matter, ditto for Tripath.

Tripath is coming out with something new, which they are promising samples of, called "Godzilla" which is supposed to be far simpler, and I forget just how, but it also promises direct digital injection for these modules, making them even more "hybrid." JVC's approach is anyone's guess, but as I mentioned earlier, it has been Japan's destiny to take existing designs and improve them. Canon killed Xerox is the best example, or the original Honda Accord, was an improved BMW 2002, far too high performance for the average North American who over-steered them right into the ditch-

ex: The sonics of the JVC, IMHO, blows the doors off the DIY Tripath amp I built awhile ago. And that thing was just fine, right at the top of the audio food chain in fact. I personally think that JVC has weighed in with something that is an advance on the existing Tripath stuff, and yet perhaps a departure from Godzilla. Perhaps, "Godzirra."

With the Kenwood 7100, I just want to take a look. The fact that it has a captive PC and lacks the ability to bi-amp puts it at a huge disadvantage, because you HAVE to replace the PC with those (TI) things. Second, bi amping has proven to make a huge difference in the proceedings, that has been proven. More power = Mo betta.

And lastly, tonight, I shot three coats of Crilon onto my JVC, and now, it looks really f---ing cool!

I replaced the jog wheel with a nice gold one I had, so it is buff black, with one phat gold knob on it. Is that high end audio, or WHAT?? 17 inches wide and black.

Ears · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 01:01 am »

The 7100 is no powerhouse and the manual says....70 watts per channel rms whith both channels driven @8 ohm from 20 to 20khz with 0.7% distortion.

It indeed does not except a 192hz upsampled signal , only a 96hz signal and is definitly not a digital direct receiver.
However it does sound somewhat Pany like whith less overall transparency, fresh out of the box.

Looks like the Panys are still the only true direct digital receivers

Spring clips suck bad

AphileEarlyAdopter · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 01:37 am »

Man Ears, you are driving me nuts with 'except' instead of 'accept' and 'there' instead of 'their'. I guess too much playing around with digital equipment causes some brain damage

(said in jest)

BTW, why did you say the Kenwood is not digital direct ? Presence of a linear power supply does not mean it is not 'pure digital'. The Kenwood is surely digital direct because they mention 'PurePath' in the manual. The lack of transparency may be due to lack of breakin or it might be because of some cost cutting in the circuitry.

Ears · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 02:00 am »

Quote from: AphileEarlyAdopter

Man Ears, you are driving me nuts with 'except' instead of 'accept' and 'there' instead of 'their'. I guess too much playing around with digital equipment causes some brain damage (said in jest)

BTW, why did you say the Kenwood is not digital direct ? Presence of a linear power supply does not mean it is not 'pure digital'. The Kenwood is surely digital direct because they mention 'PurePath' in the manual. The lack of transparency may be due to lack of breakin or it might be because of some cost cutting in the circuitry.

The key words are...."it will not pass a 192hz upsampled signal".....therefore it is not a direct digital receiver whith no conversion or processing in the signal path.

All the Panys do pass a 192hz upsampled signal.
This does not mean that the Panys are better, and I am fully aware of the break in required after owning five other digital amped receivers before this one....even whith the brain damage

Hooppe I spelled That OUT KORRECTLY FOR U

cjr888 · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 03:42 am »

Quote from: Ears

The key words are...."it will not pass a 192hz upsampled signal".....therefore it is not a direct digital receiver whith no conversion or processing in the signal path.

All the Panys do pass a 192hz upsampled signal.
This does not mean that the Panys are better, and I am fully aware of the break in required after owning five other digital amped receivers before this one....even whith the brain damage

Hooppe I spelled That OUT KORRECTLY FOR U

Couldn't it simply be because the specifications state that it will only take 96khz, yet still be digital to the outputs?

http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/redirectFeature.jsp?goToUrl=product.jsp?productId=2607

Ears · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Jul 2004, 05:50 am »

Quote from: cjr888

Couldn't it simply be because the specifications state that it will only take 96khz, yet still be digital to the outputs?

http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/redirectFeature.jsp?goToUrl=product.jsp?productId=2607

I suppose this could be but again, whithout processing in the digital signal path, how can this be?

It very well could be a pure path up to 96hz, but this seems like a contradiction to me whith the term "direct digital"
All the other hybrids will not pass a 192hz upsampled digital signal either.

Of course if it ends up sounding as good or better than the Panys, the fact that it will not except a 192hz signal will mean squat

Tommorow I will open it up and take a peek.

Ears · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Jul 2004, 11:25 pm »

Well I opened her up, and the Kenwood indeed does look a lot like the Panys inside and most likely is direct digital up to 96hz.
The internal build quality looks slightly better than the Pany imo.

The Kenwood does sound slightly different than the Panys after 24 hours whith the Kenwood sounding just slightly rolled off in comparison, and having a less forward sounding soundstage.
The soudstage seems bigger from top to bottom.
The midrange seems slightly fuller than the Pany also.

More on the 7100 after it has 100 hours or so, but for now, it is safe to say we have another viable contender in the little digital wonders category.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Jul 2004, 11:30 pm »

Given the long burn-in needed for digital gear, the fact that it already sounds that good is call for optimism. I'll be awaiting further word as it burns in.

Lopez · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 Jul 2004, 11:38 pm »

Ears - what about the binding posts? Does it improve on the microswitches Panasonic passes off as speaker connectors?

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Jul 2004, 12:47 am »

Yeah, Ears...do you have a digital camera? A few pics would be cool.

Ears · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 Jul 2004, 10:21 am »

Quote from: Lopez

Ears - what about the binding posts? Does it improve on the microswitches Panasonic passes off as speaker connectors?

What are binding posts..said the young Kenwood engineer

Although the spring clips are spaced out a bit as compared to the Panys, there are NO binding posts.

The 7100 also has a fixed pc whith one of those snap on ferrite cores looped on the pc.
The fixed pc looks exactly like the JVC RX-10, minus the ferrite.

The 7100 also has a rear mounted fan that always seems to be on, but it is never loud like the one on the RX-10 seems to be at times.
It never seems to get warm, much like the Pany's.

In comparison, the RX-10 is very hot running all the time.

The remote has tiny printing on it that about requires the use of a flashlight to read and is a pita to use.