Speaker binding bolt question

Lost81 · « **on:** 18 Jul 2004, 04:00 am »

Hi fellow AKSAphiles,

Is there any reason why Speaker Binding Bolts have to be space so close together?

It raises the chance of a short (which is very likely fatal for the output devices of the AKSA...).

Should the INTERNAL hook up wire of the speaker output (hot and earth) be twisted together?

I know that the signal wires should be twisted together.

When my new speakers arrive (Mission 754 Freedom 5), I am going to take a peek at the speaker input panel. I am hoping they are not as close together as my current Mission 753 Freedoms (one main reason why I am not playing my 4 AKSA 100W N right now--with the massive size of the Monster Sigma 2000 cables, there is very little space between the spades.)

If they are just as close together as the Mission 753 Freedom speaker inputs, I will just have to fabricate a custom panel with the inputs spaced 2" from each other.

Two-time escapee of the electrical Rubicon,
-Lost81

AKSA · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Jul 2004, 10:10 pm »

Benny,

You raise a very interesting point.

Speaker binding posts are close together because some fool decided to impose a world wide standard of 3/4". Just why, no one knows. The entire post, according to CE/UL regulations, should be covered because it is well known that electric shock from speaker posts is, as we all know well, fatal. So, the binding posts have to be 3/4" apart, fully covered, able to accommodate loose wire, AND able to accommodate banana posts.

This all means we have a disaster waiting to happen, as people play loud music and connect and disconnect their speakers, grazing the connectors with long banana plugs and bare wires. It's just crazy.

I suggest that you keep them maybe at least 1 1/4" apart; that way you can be reasonably sure nothing will short.

Cheers,

Hugh

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Jul 2004, 11:18 pm »

>>Should the INTERNAL hook up wire of the speaker output (hot and earth) be twisted together?

I use the same setup for the internal wiring and the speaker leads. Currently I use 8 strand braided CAT 5 for my speaker leads. I use the same for the speaker leads inside the AKSA and the same inside my speakers.
I will soon be trying some side by side speaker cables. If I like it, I will rewire the internals of the AKSA and the internals of my speakers.

Jens · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 06:01 am »

I have overcome the problem with speaker binding posts by using the high quality Speakon connectors from Neutrik. These have no bare metal anywhere.

Standard Speakon sockets and plugs are four-pole (eight-pole available), and each of the four connectors in the plugs and the sockets are designed to carry at least 30 A! They are guaranteed to give very good connections, which is also my experience. I use them both on my 55 N and on my speakers.

The Speakon system was originally designed for professional use, but has begun sifting down into home audio.

Also, the Speakon connectors are fairly inexpensive.

Cheers,

Jens

Lost81 · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 06:06 am »

Quote from: AKSA

...electric shock from speaker posts is, as we all know well, fatal...

I did not know that.

That is quite scary, considering that many "high-end" audiophile jewelry binding posts are exposed and uninsulated (no brands mentioned here, but they are common enough...).

-Lost81

AKSA · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 07:39 am »

Benny,

No, no no!! I was being ironic...... I'm sorry, I often say one thing but mean the opposite.

Until you get up to about 600 watts, there is NO WAY that a shock from the speaker posts could kill you!! You need about 180 volts to kill you, give or take. This would involve better than 100V rails, and this is up around 650 watts.
Cheers,

Hugh

EchiDna · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 07:56 am »

hehe the old "Irony Being Misunderstood by Americans Trick"

Sorry Lost81 aka Benny, I'm just poking fun!

Me myself, I'm with Jens, speakon connectors are definitely the go, especially in DIY stuff as they are cheap, well insulated and often pure copper connectors in there....

See here: www.neutrik.com and click through products tab to speakon loudspeaker connectors

AKSA · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 08:05 am »

Glen,

Speakons, a VERY good connector, are foolproof, weatherproof, and designed for the pro-audio sound reinforcement industry. They are rated to 30 amps continuous. Now THAT'S power........

Cheers,

Hugh

Lost81 · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 08:10 am »

Quote from: AKSA

Benny,

No, no no!! I was being ironic...... I'm sorry, I often say one thing but mean the opposite.

Quote from: EchiDna

hehe the old "Irony Being Misunderstood by Americans Trick"

Sorry Lost81 aka Benny, I'm just poking fun!
s

Oh dear...

I guess I better up my caffeine intake...

-Lost81

Jens · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 11:12 am »

Quote from: AKSA

Glen,

Speakons, a VERY good connector, are foolproof, weatherproof, and designed for the pro-audio sound reinforcement industry. They are rated to 30 amps continuous. Now THAT'S power........

Cheers,

Hugh

Yeah - and that's 30 amps per pole in the connector!

Some serious connection!

Those Neutrik guys certainly know what's what ...

Cheers,

Jens

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 11:41 am »

Hmm, all of a sudden, we are now measuring how much power a binding post can take, and then pronouncing it as being good. Isn't this the trap we used to fall for a long time ago (THD measurements)?

Has anyone listened to these Neutrik things, and compared them to no connector? I would love that some people have, and like them.

I am alarmed at how much a good looking $3.00 gold plated RCA socket (from Jaycar (in USA - think Radio Shack)) can stuff up the sound. I am now headed towards directly soldering my line level leads to the input selector switch, bypassing these RCA sockets.

AKSA · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 12:27 pm »

Malcolm,

The problem is this; most people HAVE to use a connector!

If you are going to use one, then you should ensure that electrically it is up to the task, and compromises the music as little as possible.

It turns out that the greatest single determinants of quality in this connection are current capacity and metallurgy. Believe it, the Speakons are good. The metal is good quality, the current capacity is huge, the resistance is therefore very, very low, and it is reasonable to assume that they will sound as good as connectors get.

I used one on a Jericho horn speaker using a Fostex 208 Sigma speaker for some years on my SE amplifier. Dammit, I still have the enclosure, but long ago sold the drivers! The driver was about 98dB/watt/metre, and speaker as a whole at least 101dB/watt/meter. This was a very sensitive application, and as far as I was able to tell the Speakon did not damage the music.

Cheers,

Hugh

Jens · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 01:35 pm »

Hi Mal,

"We" are not measuring how much power they can take - it is a simple fact stated on the Neutrik homepage.

We all know your preference for no connectors at all, but for most of us this is not practical. So we go for connectors that are not expensive, but still give us a very good connection.

I have compared the Speakons to other fairly good connectors and can tell you that they are at least as good as a variety of beefy-looking connectors out there.

The contacts in the Speakons are made from a copper alloy, which is at least one up on most other connectors, as the majority of these are made of brass. Furthermore, there is no excess material in the connectors (more or less same philosophy as the Eichmann Bullet Plugs).

No problem with the sound on these. I wouldn't know if you could find something that sounded better. At the price I think they are unbeatable on sound alone, but then they are also extremely practical - and safe!

Cheers,

Jens

StevieM · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 07:58 pm »

Hi all

I've been following this thread with interest because it's something I've been thinking of for a while. I've got a Speakon connector for the input to my subwoofer and I'm impressed with the design - don't know if it affects the sound or not though. What I've been thinking of doing is taking the crossovers out of my Aksonics and housing them separately in their own enclosures. All connections would be by Speakons rather than 4mm plugs and sockets.
Anyone tried this sort of thing? Anyone got any opinions to share?

Steve

Occam · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 09:18 pm »

Quote from: AKSA

Glen,
Speakons, a VERY good connector, are foolproof, weatherproof, and designed for the pro-audio sound reinforcement industry. They are rated to 30 amps continuous. Now THAT'S power........

Cheers,
Hugh

What a buncha winjing so an sos.....

Indeed, speakons are by reputation excellent, with much to speak for them. But what pray tell, is wrong with a binding post? Lets be honest here.... we're all audio doofusses here, right? Which, inevitably means, another doofus is going to bring over a new, improved speaker cable, with either spades or bananna plugs, or heaven forbid, bare wires. Well, if you friend doesn't know how to use shrink tubing to limit the length of exposure, or if you insist on big honk'n manly-man metalic nutz, I see this as the mysterious hand of unseen forces, specifically, Darwinism. Anyone who would permit such on an output stage without actual working short protection, deserves what nature inevitably has in store for them. Its either that, or the Cave Bear. All is nature's mysterious method to cull the gene pool....

A minimal metalic mass, strong plastic hex nut, industrial 30amp continuous duty is easily available, sounds just fine(no, probably not as good as hardwiring). Specifically, the Superior BP30 series, or the equialent(?) available in a multitude of colors, from North Creek [or, insert your choice here]. And frankly, in this 'go to heck the rest of the world' these here United States, we don't give a fig if some European tourist plugs their iron into our amp outputs (well, least as long as its impedance doesn't dip below 3.5 ohms...) Certainly, not as Occam proof as a Speakon, but far more flexible.

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Jul 2004, 06:22 am »

Ok, the Neutrik Speakons do look good.
I want to put some sort of connector on the back of my AKSA 55 and have leads that soldered to the speaker lugs.
What model of Neutrik should I be using (for a connector and as a chassis connector)?

EchiDna · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Jul 2004, 07:58 am »

Quote from: Malcolm Fear

Ok, the Neutrik Speakons do look good.
I want to put some sort of connector on the back of my AKSA 55 and have leads that soldered to the speaker lugs.
What model of Neutrik should I be using (for a connector and as a chassis connector)?

Neutrik Speakon links:
Plugs and chassis mounts
there is also high current versions (SPX series) and weatherproofed (STX series) versions of the same stuff...

it is a proprietary connection, you have to use the Neutrik male and female halves to make a joint....

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #17 on:** 20 Jul 2004, 11:39 am »

Hi Echidna and others

Anyone know about the LX series of the Neutrix Speakon connectors?
"The Best Just Got Better" - say the adds.

EchiDna · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 Jul 2004, 02:36 am »

I think the SX series is acctually the SPX series in disguise! - either that or there is different naming conventions in different markets

It is just a slightly different design using different locking mechanism and materials - with an upgraded current capacity of 50 amps

you might see these things on arc welders soon if they keep on upgrading the current carrying capacity!

although from the specs sheet the new SPX series has the following:

Materials
Contacts: Brass CuZn39Pb3
Locking element: Zinc diecast ZnAI4Cu1
Housing / insert: PBTP 20% GR
Bushing: Polyamide PA 6 15% GR
Chuck: Polyacetal POM
Temperature range: -30°C to +80°C
Flammability: UL94V-0 (housing), UL94HB

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 Jul 2004, 04:03 am »

Hi Echidna
I did see that the contact mentions brass. I think brass is a bad thing.
So I would be better using some of the other Neutik models?
I bought a male / female from Jaycar, just to be able to fondle them. Jaycar had another one, which is a cheap knock off of Neutrik. Gotta be careful.