[Tyson]

Also, lets not forget that in the old days there was a healthy industry around building kits, which was an inexpensive way to get good sound also also a good way to learn about how this stuff actually worked.  In the absence of that, the general knowledge around electronics and speakers has diminished in the audiophile community, which makes everyone more vulnerable to snake oil.  And make no mistake, when normal people see that stuff they just shake their head in disbelief and label us all a bunch of crazies.

[roscoeiii]

My hope for the future generations of audiophiles? Headphones. Head-fi is blowing up, and the crowd at headphone meet-ups is generally much younger than I see at audio shows. Great sound via headphones is more easily within the grasp of younger folks, who are also very much of the portable audio generation.

[genjamon]

Just a little personal anecdote:

I live with a music library professor for the university where I work.  He is exceptionally knowledgeable about music in particular and art in general.  His scholarship is in the area of old choral music in British and European churches, but he has a personal wealth of knowledge about indie and alt music scenes - having lived in all the "hip" music capitals of America at one point or another, he has known and knows tons of great musicians (some fairly famous) around the country.

Here's the thing, he has ready access to my full system in our living room anytime he wants.  He prefers sitting out on the back deck smoking cigarettes, drinking cava, and listening through his Macbook - not headphones, mind you, the actual Macbook integrated speakers!  He fully acknowledges the awesomeness of my setup, but he would never use it on his own.  A big part of it, I suspect, is that he doesn't want to bother understanding how to turn it on, how to load his music onto it, etc.  But I also suspect the bigger issue is that he would rather not sit on the couch in the living room instead of being able to hang outside and move around the house with his music. 

Anyway, I don't understand what the disconnect is with our changing lifestyles, but it's pretty profound, and I have a feeling it involves much more than our connections to music and interest in hi fidelity playback.  I think this is about emotional ambivalences and personal barriers that are popping up as we all are confronted with more and more "technology" and figuring out how to integrate it in our lives, how much of it to integrate, and trying to retain a sense of personal choice and "humanity" as more and more of our personal experiences are thoroughly mediated by this information technology age.  It's a crisis of identity that the younger generation is going through.

[jimdgoulding]

Agree, high-fidelity replacing the term high-end audio is a great idea! Yes source material (music) is key. Without source material what's the point?

The term high fidelity beckons the music lover.  The term high end is devoid of feeling and says precisely nothing to me.  There are no high fidelity sound stores in my city of 4 million, mostly blue collar, people anymore thanks to internet marketing and other reasons.  That is the present, it seems.  There is not enough of the population to support them.  Even the ones who added video to keep people coming in the door have closed.  They appear to be going the way of record stores.  Our local FM stations, the ones at the left hand end of the dial, I'm sure would love to have guests talking about the benefits of high fidelity for the music lover.  Your city, too, I imagine.  Were I ever to be such a guest I would recommend sources of information like we members of Audio Circle.  It's the courtesy, camaraderie and common goal here that would engage newbies, imo, more so by a long shot than the big chat rooms like Audiogon.  I was in my 30's when I first began my pursuit of high fidelity but agree that typically most folks are older.  Not many females, either, as we well know.  It was a female, btw, who taught me how to listen to music with her gestures.  She never said a word about it.  I think the idea of local audio clubs hosting meets open to the public with manufacturer's participation has potential, but, they would have to be broad based marketed.  That is something else I would promote were I ever a guest on the local PBS-FM or Univ of Houston radio.  If I had a larger listening room I would contact speaker manufacturers and represent for them on appointment.  I'm sure this is being done somewhere.  Then my creative juices would begin flowing/exploding cause I would really have an incentive to market.

What suggestions do you ladies and gents have for agents of this industry we love?  How can WE help?

 

[SteveFord]

I don't have any ideas about helping but I can tell you what this industry is facing: apathy.

My first wife's take was it sounds good but it's nothing she would ever buy or seek out on her own.
My second wife sees it as a bunch of guys sitting around staring at little boxes.
Her kids?  I can't give them audio components, what would they do with them? 
Would you like a tuner?  No, I don't have any use for it not yes, I could use this as a starting block for a nice stereo system.

One last wife-ism: too big, too expensive, too complicated, it shouldn't be hard, it should just be hit one button and it works.

I've found that music (at home) is viewed as something to talk over just like it is on a car radio unless it's one of those "talent" shows on television.  I put together a fairly good sound system for my wife and it's used 99% of the time for watching television.
Not even watching a movie, just plain old watching crap on TV.
My wife can't fathom simply sitting down and listening to an album.  She's done it maybe twice in the entire time I've known her.

Most people simply don't care.
Maybe the headphone crowd will switch over to "big stereo" when they get places of their own but then again, they might not.
Too big, too expensive, too complicated, too dull, who cares?
I might add too difficult to talk over when I crank the volume!

My side of the family is quite a bit more music-oriented than Lynda's side but none of them have good sound systems. 
None of my coworkers have good sound systems, it's simply not a priority for people.

[DaveC113]

I don't have any ideas about helping but I can tell you what this industry is facing: apathy.

My first wife's take was it sounds good but it's nothing she would ever buy or seek out on her own.
My second wife sees it as a bunch of guys sitting around staring at little boxes.
Her kids?  I can't give them audio components, what would they do with them? 
Would you like a tuner?  No, I don't have any use for it not yes, I could use this as a starting block for a nice stereo system.

One last wife-ism: too big, too expensive, too complicated, it shouldn't be hard, it should just be hit one button and it works.

I've found that music (at home) is viewed as something to talk over just like it is on a car radio unless it's one of those "talent" shows on television.  I put together a fairly good sound system for my wife and it's used 99% of the time for watching television.
Not even watching a movie, just plain old watching crap on TV.
My wife can't fathom simply sitting down and listening to an album.  She's done it maybe twice in the entire time I've known her.

Most people simply don't care.
Maybe the headphone crowd will switch over to "big stereo" when they get places of their own but then again, they might not.
Too big, too expensive, too complicated, too dull, who cares?
I might add too difficult to talk over when I crank the volume!

My side of the family is quite a bit more music-oriented than Lynda's side but none of them have good sound systems. 
None of my coworkers have good sound systems, it's simply not a priority for people.

Sad but true for most folks I'd imagine.

Most of my friends that hear my system are "wowed" and inquire about it, but so far nobody has come to me asking me to help them spend their money. My last girlfriend wanted me to help her set up a surround system mostly for watching movies...   

[genjamon]

A young professor friend of mine and her husband wanted me to help them after they heard my system. I asked them what their budget was. They said, between $200-300. 

[SteveFord]

One thing which would help a LOT (I believe) would be lower concert ticket prices.
Wives love to go see live bands (I do, too).
You see the band, you're all enthusiastic, you buy the music, you listen to it at home and you want the same sound quality as what you just saw last week at the show but on a smaller scale.
It seems to me that the decline in home stereo sales is in direct proportion to the rise in concert ticket prices.
Remember when you could buy a ticket to a hot act for the price of mowing somebody's lawn?
How can you know what live music is supposed to sound like if you never go to see anyone perform because it's just too expensive?

[Tyson]

It's a hobby.  There's no wonder most people don't give a crap about it.  Just like I don't give a crap about any of their hobbies.  Putting on "fly fishing demonstrations" ain't gonna make me want to become a fly fisherman.  Putting on "golf demos" ain't gonna make me want to take up golf.  I just don't care about that stuff.  And the reverse is true for the people I know that are into fishing or into golf.

I may not share their hobby, but at least they don't sit around bemoaning that more people don't share their hobby.  This whole conversation about audio dying and what can we do to save it is stupid.

[DaveC113]

It's a hobby.  There's no wonder most people don't give a crap about it.  Just like I don't give a crap about any of their hobbies.  Putting on "fly fishing demonstrations" ain't gonna make me want to become a fly fisherman.  Putting on "golf demos" ain't gonna make me want to take up golf.  I just don't care about that stuff.  And the reverse is true for the people I know that are into fishing or into golf.

I may not share their hobby, but at least they don't sit around bemoaning that more people don't share their hobby.  This whole conversation about audio dying and what can we do to save it is stupid.

It's a hobby for us, but many people would be satisfied with simply buying a good system and never changing it, never tweaking it.

But it's also true that many people just don't care, for example when I bought a TV a few years ago I was looking at Panasonic plasma sets. The basic 58" was on sale for $1099, then there was a higher end model for almost double the price, and the top of the line 3D set for about 3x the price. After checking out all three carefully, I decided I'd be fine with the basic set for $1099. It would be nice if it offered a few more manual picture adjustments, but the truth is I just don't care that much. I understand the gamma was adjusted a bit too high from the factory with no way to change it, and I saw the difference in shadow detail, etc... but in the end I liked the factory picture when on "cinema" mode or whatever and I can live without perfection to save $1k. If I change my mind later I can buy a processor and have a pro come and adjust my settings to perfection, which would exceed the pic quality of the higher end plasma. I haven't done that yet and most likely never will.

The issue with audio is, most people don't even know what the options are. Some would care enough to invest in good gear, but there's nowhere to go to check it out. Say you want to see what the single driver / SET thing is all about... good luck finding anywhere that demos that kind of gear!

I have a story about that... many years ago I wanted to check out the single driver / SET thing, so I went to my local audio store, there used to be several but now there's just one and they are heavily into video. They carry big name high-end, high-priced gear like McIntosh, etc... I asked if they had any SET amps and high eff / single driver speakers and they said no. When I asked why not, the manager told me it's not as profitable... why sell a system for a few grand when people will pay much more? 

So it's not just about getting people into audio as a hobby, that's another thing entirely... it's about the failure of an entire industry to make it's existence known to the general public.

[jimdgoulding]

Hey, Tyson, you hit the nail on the head.  Gots to give it to you, sport.  I promote listening to music and audio cause it slays me and I enjoy people with the same passion just like a couple of gun collector's, presumably.  Going over to the owner of Silver Circle Audio's house in the morning.  All I know in advance about his system is that he owns Tyler speakers and has a big vinyl collection like me.  Plus, he could do stand-up with his sarcasm.  Doubt that we will bemoan much of anything.  He can afford good scotch.  Won't be bemoaning that.  Wish you were here. 

[jhm731]

Hey, Tyson, you hit the nail on the head.  Gots to give it to you, sport.  I promote listening to music and audio cause it slays me and I enjoy people with the same passion just like a couple of gun collector's, presumably.  Going over to the owner of Silver Circle Audio's house in the morning.  All I know in advance about his system is that he owns Tyler speakers and has a big vinyl collection like me.  Plus, he could do stand-up with his sarcasm.  Doubt that we will bemoan much of anything.  He can afford good scotch.  Won't be bemoaning that.  Wish you were here.

Jim,

Dave must also be in good shape for a guy his age if can lift those SCA power conditioners.

[PMAT]

If every bozo had a high fi system I would have to listen to their stupid dribble about it. Thank god I am not stuck in line at the grocery store listening about FLAC and vinyl from the lady smacking her kid and wearing stained yoga pants. Snobbery? Fine. I am delighted with the current state of hi-fi. I would much rather read here than deal with my local hi fi store. That dinosaur SHOULD die.

[jimdgoulding]

Appreciate your sentiment re the former, but not the latter.  Of course, I might agree with what you mean by hifi store if I were in your shoes.

[jimdgoulding]

Jim,

Dave must also be in good shape for a guy his age if can lift those SCA power conditioners.

Come to think of it, he does have a powerful handshake.  He's a friend of a friend and we closed the bar at an LSAF a couple years back plus we've spent some time at our mutual friend's house "hustlin and a pimpin and a carryin on". Come on, now, whose line is that?

[JLM]

Jim,

We had a local fellow who started moonlighting as a in-home, by audition only, audio retailer.  He had only one room to listen in (roughly 13 ft x 22 ft) plus I think one more for storage.  As I understand the equipment was on consignment from the manufacturers.  What a wonderful, relaxing experience (didn't even feel like 'shopping' as he kept his quirky opinions to himself).  His equally pleasant non-audiophile wife joined us after the audition, during the conversation stage.  At the time he was making very good money that led to the downfall as he went fully bricks and mortar, quitting his regular job.  Eventually he was forced to go the HT route and finally out of business.


Steve,

Love your wife-isms and the idea of lower concert prices (around here, major college town, there are lots of free concerts of varying quality/genres).

Apathy, yes but more to the point I see audio in competition with multi-media (TV, video games) and the overall addiction to being overly stimulated and busy.  Its 'uncool' to not be busy.  'Just' listening doesn't make sense to most.  Good friends (he's a recently retired college professor) gave up TV during Watergate.  That puts them out of lots of current culture, but they sure are big readers.  I confess to multi-tasking if it involves desk/computer work or reading and enjoying it immensely.


Dave,

I'm down to exactly one audio shop (but 3 of 4 rooms are primarily set up for video gear and I'm usually the only customer in the place).  They've never carried single driver speakers or SETs, yet they only heard of using a computer as a source, quality wireless audio, DSP, don't peruse the internet audio sites, etc.  They are dinosaurs.

[JohnR]

I may not share their hobby, but at least they don't sit around bemoaning that more people don't share their hobby.  This whole conversation about audio dying and what can we do to save it is stupid.

I have to admit, I had a pretty good chuckle reading this

So what would it take to make "good quality" (not "high end") audio more accessible to more people? That would mean fitting into their idea of what things should cost and how they should work... no? 

[enjoythemusic]

The term high fidelity beckons the music lover.

Agreed.

Apologies yet hard to answer each and every reply on this thread and so... What about he millions of people who are (hopefully) entering the workforce and one day getting successful jobs... eventually homes. As posted before, agree with using the term High Fidelity and thus have made actual changes to the site. You may notice this change at the top of Enjoy the Music.com's homepage. Perhaps 'music appreciation' of sorts fell through a generation or so, yet we all must at least give some acknowledgement to Apple for the iPod and how that has greatly increased music appreciation. Now with Beats by Dr. Dre and others trying to at least deliver some form of higher sound quality than the junk supplied with most music players... In a sense they are 'educating' people for us that higher fidelity is achievable and a worthy pursuit... at least on some level higher than apathy.

SQUIRREL!
If we look at the recent past versus planning for the future...  This is also why before the financial downfall I tried and tried to inform USA manufacturers to expand their distribution via attending the Munich event. This way when the economy had the major downturn, which indeed happened, they could survive via expansion of distributors/dealers. Sadly, to this day many USA companies still do not attend the extremely important Munich event


BACK ON-TPOIC
Many great comments on this thread and appreciate everyone's aspect both pro and con.

ADDED: Apologies for shameless plug, yet you'll also notice have begun using High Fidelity instead of High-End on the Facebook page too www.facebook.com/enjoythemusic5

[Davey]

Also, lets not forget that in the old days there was a healthy industry around building kits, which was an inexpensive way to get good sound also also a good way to learn about how this stuff actually worked.  In the absence of that, the general knowledge around electronics and speakers has diminished in the audiophile community, which makes everyone more vulnerable to snake oil.  And make no mistake, when normal people see that stuff they just shake their head in disbelief and label us all a bunch of crazies.

Yep, that's what an "audiophile" used to be before the term was bastardized.  Generally, you built your own system and had a decent idea of how it worked and how to modify.  Some electronics background was almost mandatory and an "audiophile" was not unlike a ham radio enthusiast.
Now, "audiophiles" are goofball eccentrics with way more money than sense and are viewed as silly by family/friends. 

I can appreciate the comment about audio dying and the whole conversation being stupid.  But what happens when audio actually does die?
However, I suppose we're not too many years away from plugging directly into the noodle and experiencing virtual reality audio/video.  Any of you ever see the movie "Brainstorm" with Christoper Walken? 

Cheers,

Dave.

[JohnR]

But what happens when audio actually does die?

"Audio" won't die. It might not be what some segment or other of the "industry" wants it to be.
 

Any of you ever see the movie "Brainstorm" with Christoper Walken? 

Not that I recall  Should I?