[dBe]

When the tour began results were very consistent, with 100% of the participants noting the differences between the discs.  People had different opinions between what disc(s) sounded better subjectively, but the observations were all the same: A and X sounded different from B.  I will not divulge what was cryoed and what was not at this time.  That will come after discussion.

What I will divulge is that with deteriorating disc condition the results have become inconsequential.  Since the discs have been beaten to crap there is no reason for me to continue to spend my money.

One observation and the parties that are responsible will know who you are.  To abuse another person's property is wrong.  I am completely to blame here.  I should have known better.  To treat another's person's property with less than utmost care is wrong.

'Nuff said other than I am really disappointed.

Now you know why I will never sponsor a tour of any sort again.

Dave

[SoCalWJS]

Sorry to hear, but not terribly surprised. 

Thank you Dave for doing the tour at all. It has given me (and I assume others) much to think about, but don't know if I'll be able to figure out why. Doesn't seem like super-freezing a plastic disc containing bits of info should change the sound, but it does. For better or worse is subjective, but it does change.

Take care Dave.

[S Clark]

Dang.  That's disappointing- eventual wear and tear is to be expected, but intentional damage is surprising.  I thought we were (mostly) adults here at AC. 
Scott

[dBe]

Dang.  That's disappointing- eventual wear and tear is to be expected, but intentional damage is surprising.  I thought we were (mostly) adults here at AC. 
Scott

I don't think the damage was intentional by any means.  There are just some people that don't care about taking care of other's things.

It just robbed the rest of the people from their equal turns.

Dave

[S Clark]

Good, glad that I misread it.  I sent a pm asking about the results.

[Elizabeth]

ANY library has the same problem. Thus discs have an 'average' life.. Same as books. The average lifespan for a paperback is 6 circulations. Six people and by then one of the six will have destroyed it. Sometimes it is the first person! Sometimes the item miraculously spans a few dozen circs..
(The most amazing circulation is the average childs VHS which can easily get circ in the hundreds.. Though naturally some get trash very early, or stolen.)

So what i am saying is ANY circulation of a product is going to to have an average lifespan before it hits the FOR CERTAIN jerk who will destroy it.
I do not know how many people the items were passed on to.. but if they survived over six changes of hands you did fine. If you got ten.. then it was a huge success!!

So your writing: "never again"... I think you need to reconsider. No matter what the items are going to land in the hands of a jerk. If you allow that to stop you. well you should never have started!!
I suggest doing the experiment again. And IMO you can BUY plenty of CDs for a buck or two each.. Find some at  half price books or whatever and work with those.
(I mean if you bought full price copies and all then i can see getting annoyed...)

Find a pile of cheap Cds which sound good and go for it.
I have no interest in the experiment for myself. I just think your experience is standard/par for the course, and not some problem. Face it, and do it again with full knowledge the lifespan of any media passed amoung strangers is limited.


PS about how many folks were able to take part before the discs were rendered unusable?


And another way to pay for the discs is the make a list of Cds you want to use.. and have people send them to you. The three  local Half Price Bookstores have thousands at $2 each.. I am certain folks would be willing to chip in and send you some stuff for the 'tour'.
Really. If I had a few spares i would send them to you and no problem.. Really. (well just so they are no MFSL worth $$$ LOL..)

[groovybassist]

In a tour this small, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect very little actual wear and tear. We all have music collections we probably treat with great care - there's no reason we shouldn't treat someone else's resources as carefully and perhaps even more so than our own. I personally have no idea how, when or where damage to the CDs happened, but I have them in my possession right now and can say I was a bit surprised at the condition they were in (on the data side, not label side). I've dropped a CD or two in my day and have some I've played hundreds of times and they still look pristine, especially in comparison to the tour CDs.

Mike

[Elizabeth]

In a tour this small, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect very little actual wear and tear. We all have music collections we probably treat with great care - there's no reason we shouldn't treat someone else's resources as carefully and perhaps even more so than our own. I personally have no idea how, when or where damage to the CDs happened, but I have them in my possession right now and can say I was a bit surprised at the condition they were in (on the data side, not label side). I've dropped a CD or two in my day and have some I've played hundreds of times and they still look pristine, especially in comparison to the tour CDs.

Mike

Some folks just have no respect for 'free'. They do not care about it, as it is not thier property.
Like it is a mental health issue more than malicious..

And I think the idea that everyone will 'respect and care for circulating CDs is not realistic.
Like i mentioned in my prior post.. a limited lifespan is the real experience.
And you may have even had a person who traded their crap discs for the real ones!!!

(For that I would engrave them in the center area.. So they are not swapped..)

[groovybassist]

May be true, but I think the fact that enthusiasts in the same hobby wouldn't take care of each other's stuff is a sad statement about modern life. I'd be mortified if I caused the issue.

Mike

[dBe]

Some folks just have no respect for 'free'. They do not care about it, as it is not thier property.
Like it is a mental health issue more than malicious..

And I think the idea that everyone will 'respect and care for circulating CDs is not realistic.
Like i mentioned in my prior post.. a limited lifespan is the real experience.
And you may have even had a person who traded their crap discs for the real ones!!!

(For that I would engrave them in the center area.. So they are not swapped..)

Elizabeth,  you are correct on all points.  It was foolish of me to think that 16 people or so would treat the test seriously.  My bad.

FWIW, the discs are marked individually with my clumsy scrawl.  I'll know if they are the originals.

Now I know just how far to go in things.  I am constantly asked why I do not send my products out "on approval" and i require a 100% refundable payment up front with no questions asked.  Reason is I have a total return percentage of < 0.3% and the other reason is that the first time I did that the person, his CC and my BUSS disappeared.

One more lesson under my belt .

Oh, we'll.

Dave

[dBe]

May be true, but I think the fact that enthusiasts in the same hobby wouldn't take care of each other's stuff is a sad statement about modern life. I'd be mortified if I caused the issue.

Mike

I'm just thankful that you confirmed what I was beginning to suspect.  Many thanks, Mike.  You Rock!

Dave